orly
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It doesn't need to be that way.
Corbyn can do the right thing, step aside, and we can have a proper election.
Current Affairs 2017 General Election
- Thread starter neil999
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It doesn't need to be that way.
Corbyn can do the right thing, step aside, and we can have a proper election.
The Cowboy
Player Valuation: £60m
You seem to be forgetting that they were the party that held all the aces in 2010. I know a LibLab coalition has already been ruled out, but the point is that the LDs are not a wasted vote. They will rise again, mark my words (not an LD supporter btw).
Gents, can I suggest you both go and walk the dog or something. Emotions are high and I don't want this getting out of hand.
tsubaki
Player Valuation: £90m
(removed because of Bruce's post above)
Gwladysstreetlad
Player Valuation: £50m
Oh yes I remember that well. They effectively became indentured servants to the Conservative government and failed to deliver a single thing which resulted in them being practically wiped out by 2015. Now they have the clown Farron as leader who is about as effective as a cat flap in an elephant house!
Foot Long Hot Dog
Player Valuation: A packet of pork scratchings
I actually like Clegg, and he speaks a lot of sense, but I can't forgive him for what he did in 2010, which was a shameless betrayal of most of his voters in a shameful power grab at the expense of morals and politics.
Labour should have just lead with "Vote Lib Dem get the Tories" in 2015
WycombeToffee
Player Valuation: £1.5m
And how are you going to pay for all of this? The magic money tree? The fact is, we are a country in huge debt (largely due to Labour's overspending) and cannot afford a load of wishy washy idealist policies. Under Corbyn and Labour's proposed plans (such as £60 billion extra spending and chucking cash at an inefficient NHS), this debt will be increased at a much greater rate, undoing the good work of the past few years to halve the deficit and bring financial sustainability closer. If ever there was a time for fiscal conservatism it is now.
The Cowboy
Player Valuation: £60m
Yes, I do agree that he had a shocker there. Should've let the Tories form a minority government and back the policies they agreed with. Would've certainly made the Tories think hard about the policies they intended to implement.
tsubaki
Player Valuation: £90m
The main reason for the increase in debt under Labour was the banking crash, not overspending on other matters. Since 2010 and "fiscal conservatism", debt has remained high despite wage restraint in the public sector (0% or 1% deals every year for most), despite the sell-offs of tens of billions of pounds worth of state property and despite rising taxes. The coalition government had a bigger deficit every year of its existence than the pre-crash Labour government did.
As for the "magical money tree", in many cases - especially with regards to PFI projects and outsourced bits of the state - spending now to take them over would reduce in a lower total cost to the taxpayer; when Boris (!) took the Tube PPP back in house it was estimated he saved £3.6 billion.
WycombeToffee
Player Valuation: £1.5m
a) Debt was always going to remain high for the next few years after the Tories came in. They can't perform miracles. The only way to have lowered that further would be even more "savage cuts".The main reason for the increase in debt under Labour was the banking crash, not overspending on other matters. Since 2010 and "fiscal conservatism", debt has remained high despite wage restraint in the public sector (0% or 1% deals every year for most), despite the sell-offs of tens of billions of pounds worth of state property and despite rising taxes. The coalition government had a bigger deficit every year of its existence than the pre-crash Labour government did.
As for the "magical money tree", in many cases - especially with regards to PFI projects and outsourced bits of the state - spending now to take them over would reduce in a lower total cost to the taxpayer; when Boris (!) took the Tube PPP back in house it was estimated he saved £3.6 billion.
b) Whilst the global crash did play a role, irresponsible governmental spending caused the worst of the damage in the UK.
c) I'm still not sure how it can all be paid for. If those proposals really would lower costs for the taxpayer, then why haven't they been taken over by a government focused on saving?
Foot Long Hot Dog
Player Valuation: A packet of pork scratchings
Since 2010 the Tories have increased our borrowing by more than £550BN, which is over £120BN more than Labour did in 13 years.
That's before you factor in the forecast increase of the national debt as a direct result of Brexit.
The complete failure of Labour to hammer home this point to the electorate was their biggest failing in 2015.
tsubaki
Player Valuation: £90m
a) true, though we have had savage cuts and the state (or rather the bits of the state still under direct control) is now smaller than at any time in recent memory. It should have come down more than it has.
b) not really, as the graphs show the explosion in debt happened 2007-2010. Labour's biggest pre-crash failing was hiding debt (in terms of PFI deals) which did artificially lower their figures at the expense of raising it considerably for later years.
c) there is very little evidence to suggest that they are focused on saving; this government have just been spending the money on other things
https://data.oecd.org/chart/4OiC
I don't think it's right to look at the UK in isolation, as you can only really compare like with like if you look at how other countries have done, both in terms of their debt and the way they tackled the credit crunch.
It's not an ideal comparison even then as you have different start points and so on, but you can see in the chart above how comparable nations have done. The UK seems to do okay, but Germany are far and away the best performer, on this measure at least.
I don't think it's right to look at the UK in isolation, as you can only really compare like with like if you look at how other countries have done, both in terms of their debt and the way they tackled the credit crunch.
It's not an ideal comparison even then as you have different start points and so on, but you can see in the chart above how comparable nations have done. The UK seems to do okay, but Germany are far and away the best performer, on this measure at least.
orly
Please check with me for Blammo criteria
And has continued to be right up to the present day. It's a political open goal, a bit like the Cps investigations. They should be linking it to historic sleaze all over the show.
Sadly, Corbyn team incompetence means it has all been wasted. Better to concentrate on helping Uncle Len and the other wasters.
Hopefully the next Labour iteration will be all over this stuff like a bad rash
A couple of points on this. To take the NHS as an example, the state still spends considerably more on this than in, say, the Major years, and that's because spending grew so much during the Blair years. If we take as read that the country wasn't in some tragic state of disrepair during the Major years, then we have to be careful with hyperbole when describing things.
Secondly, and again to take the NHS as an example, the way politics is run has come home to roost, and the NHS is a perfect example of that. The government knows full well that it is spending beyond its means on 'health', but it also knows that the NHS is a sacred cow, so rather than splitting the 'pain' evenly between the NHS and social care, it 'saves' the NHS, and puts a huge burden on social care, hence we're left with a situation where beds are blocked because there's no capacity in the community to accept people, demand for the NHS continues to rise because social care isn't equipped to tackle prevention and so on. It's a purely political mess, and it will continue to be so so long as the NHS is such a political hot potato that it simply cannot be discussed rationally.
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