Whose fault - Howard, Osman -- or Martinez?

[davek]

This thread stinks. Mistakes happen, get over it.

If Osman starts in Barkleys position he will do fine. Get caught in possession couple times, misplace a couple passes but will do ok. Better than Naismith and his shocking control anywho.

If he starts in CM id be more worried about him getting caught on the ball though.

However Bobby is using the squad we have just fine. Osman is there to be used and has contributed enough to be the main rotational player above naismith jelly johnny and the others.

Butters - lukaku has not been excellent all season....about as valid as your opinion on Ossie really.

That's a low bar tbf.

If Osman does play he needs keeping well away from our own penalty area. The feller is a liability.

 

[davek]

It will be interesting to see how Martinez has us lining up against Saints. Juve have nominally been playing a 3-5-2 this season.

We've been not a million miles from that. Against Swansea Barry was the man often going back into a back three, with the full-backs used far more in attack than defence. Mirallas was used more centrally too, with Coleman then providing the width on the right.

Might we see Stones or Alcaraz come into the back three therefore, with McCarthy then playing the Pirlo role alongside Osman and Barkley, with Mirallas up front with Lukaku/Jelavic, and Coleman/Oviedo/Baines providing the width?

*cough*

One thing in favour of that (the ONLY thing in its favour) is that Osman will be busting a gut to make amends. It could be that Martinez leaves him in to get that off him.

I dont make us favourite for that game, though. They have some very lively forward play from Lalana, Rodriguez, Lambert, and I dont see us keeping a clean sheet as things stand.

I wonder if Martinez recognises this and takes the opportunity to try something different by go with a different formation? He wont want to leave his two CBs coping with that S'ton firepower as our two FBs bomb forward. Up to now he's relied on McCarthyor Barry stepping back. With Barry out we'll lose some flexibility in that respect (Osman isn't up to that task he's so lightweight, and we certainly dont want Barkley playing that far back as a CM with responsibilities of that nature).

He's done 343 in the past when faced with adversity. I wonder if he'll see this as the moment to draft Stones in and do what he did pre-season v Juventus?

 

[mythbuster]

that doesnt mean we should ignore selection errors or areas in the team that should be improved upon

maybe not with the title of this particular thread, but a match losing incident is worth investigating, rather than just being dismissed as 'one of those things'

Let us know when you've ironed these problems out mate

 

[Muggins]

Exactly, what's all this blaming stuff? It's that kind of thinking that has caused so many English teams to play long ball football over the years. You can't have players running scared that they're going to be pounced on if they make a mistake. They will happen, it's inevitable, be it in life or in football, but especially so when you're trying something more difficult.

I'm sure the players will learn from the match yesterday, but the last thing we want them to do is retreat into their shell and resort back to long-ball stuff.

I agree Bruce. Embarrassing really about the whole 'blame' thing. Have some people on here just started watching Everton or something. Bizarre really.

 

[marsh]

Just knock it back the keeper, simple.

 

[bainesontoast]

Blame the Karma god: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2078678/Sunderland-1-Everton-1-Jack-Colback-claims-precious-point-ONeill.html

 

[The Buck]

Amazing thread really. The bile directed towards Osman, who with with Howard contrived to make a costly mistake, is something to behold. Yes, we get it, Osman is not the favourite player of a good few on here [insert cliché]. Is he a bad player, no. He will be gutted, not only for the mistake but for having to be hauled off.

Mistakes happen all the time - all players make them - usually they don't result in a goal. Sunderland 'parked the bus' limiting us to long-range efforts, and on another day we might have got a deserved equaliser. Just one of those games. Shame about the loss and that record. The season is still going well. The team will regroup. This is a good group of players with a manager we can have confidence in. The last thing we need is fans getting on the back of individual players. Perspective!

 

[Del]

Moyes final two fingers to the supporters

Giving Osman the clown a new contract

 

[davek]

Amazing thread really. The bile directed towards Osman, who with with Howard contrived to make a costly mistake, is something to behold. Yes, we get it, Osman is not the favourite player of a good few on here [insert cliché]. Is he a bad player, no. He will be gutted, not only for the mistake but for having to be hauled off.

Mistakes happen all the time - all players make them - usually they don't result in a goal. Sunderland 'parked the bus' limiting us to long-range efforts, and on another day we might have got a deserved equaliser. Just one of those games. Shame about the loss and that record. The season is still going well. The team will regroup. This is a good group of players with a manager we can have confidence in. The last thing we need is fans getting on the back of individual players. Perspective!

There's a bit of venom in some posts toward Osman but the majority are simply making the point he should never have been in there in the first place given the form and fitness of Barkley and then point out that Osman's balls up was not withioutr precedent and he should never be allowed another repeat performance.

The decision to play him and his actions cost us three points and quite possibly third place. I dont see how that should be taken philosophically and not critiqued.

 

[Blue Truth]

Moyes final two fingers to the supporters

Giving Osman the clown a new contract

Yep absolutely disgraceful him giving him a new contract when he knew he wouldn't be our manager anyway.

 

[davek]

Moyes final two fingers to the supporters

Giving Osman the clown a new contract

How that got through I dont know, but he's here on sufferance now.

I'll be honest about Osman, I think he's a player who belongs to that Moyes era and his loyalties are in that direction. I'm not saying he's not trying when on the pitch, but he knows his time has come and gone and that he's a bit part player now, and he comes across as viewing this new era as being a bit 'after the Lord Mayor's parade'. As Fox said, he's the jester with zero to offer. I dont like Osman's attitude. He's not serious or focused enough, even before yesterday's calamity I'd thought that...and that's apart from the ability gap he has to overcome now.

He should be playing at Championship level or Div One.

 

[Walken]

Let us know when you've ironed these problems out mate

I've looked into, bought Manny fernandes on FM, and deleted Osman on editor like I'm Big Brother, your welcome

 

[pfim]

For the 10 minutes previously Sunderland had switched to a high pressing game. To then play that pass towards Osman, who had run 20 yards towards his own goal and then receives the ball on the edge of the D, facing his own goal and with a Sunderland player on his arse ready to pick up any scraps, was ridiculous. A hospital pass.

What was Osman meant to do with it? Pass it back to Howard?! Completely pointless risk to take.

Really poor decision from Howard, who has all of the play in front of him.

He then tops it off by diving in with his feet, resulting in getting himself sent off and making a bad situation as worse as it possibly could be.

Osman's touch was horrendous, but that can happen to the best of them. The fact that one poor touch like that left their player instantly one on one with the keeper in our box proves he should never have been put in that situation in the first place, at least when Howard could have put the ball anywhere he wanted on the pitch.

Any PL midfielder, including Osman, accepts that pass easily 999 times out of 1000. There was nothing wrong with the pass.

 

[Blue Truth]

How that got through I dont know, but he's here on sufferance now.

I'll be honest about Osman, I think he's a player who belongs to that Moyes era and his loyalties are in that direction. I'm not saying he's not trying when on the pitch, but he knows his time has come and gone and that he's a bit part player now, and he comes across as viewing this new era as being a bit 'after the Lord Mayor's parade'. As Fox said, he's the jester with zero to offer. I dont like Osman's attitude. He's not serious or focused enough, even before yesterday's calamity I'd thought that...and that's apart from the ability gap he has to overcome now.

He should be playing at Championship level or Div One.

****ing stuck with him for another 1 and a half years now, unless he asks for a transfer/retires.

 

[davek]

****ing stuck with him for another 1 and a half years now, unless he asks for a transfer/retires.

No one will come in for him.

He's basically on a 50 grand a week jolly for the next two years and then down for a testimonial.