Whose fault - Howard, Osman -- or Martinez?

[Big Fat Sam]

Roberto will be slated if he leaves out Barkley v Southampton and we lose that too.

For that reason he'll start him.

So bearing that in mind: Do we REALLY have no other option but to play Osman? Sad state of affairs if so. Is our squad that short? Change the formation, give a youngster a try, play an extra centre back and go with wing backs... just don't play that useless crab ever again ffs.

I fully expert Osman to start though.

 

[davek]

The other maddening thing (as well as Reidy's point about minimal contact), was Osman standing like a statue shocked at his own monumental error and failing to respond and get behind his keeper (or die trying) to avoid a red being given.

That incident was poor all told because it revealed weaknesses I hoped we'd moved on from: 1) being soft in accepting decisions that are borderline and there to be protested against (if not to avoid the pen and red card, then certainly to get into the refs head and pressurize him to even the score up at some point) and 2) that we never accept a lost cause on the pitch.

Depressing incident with a lot of ramifications to it. It's little wonder many cant move on from it right now and shrug their shoulders and accept it as 'one of those things', blah blah blah.

 

[Big Fat Sam]

It's always Leon. The new Phillip Neville.

Makes me laugh when people say "what if it was Barkley or Lukaku?" - completely brushing over the fact that those two - and others - have been excellent all season and hardly put a foot wrong.

Of course Osman will get slated, because he is ****ing useless. I am fuming here, crying and shaking (C+S), the lot.

 

[mkrudden]

The other maddening thing (as well as Reidy's point about minimal contact), was Osman standing like a statue shocked at his own monumental error and failing to respond and get behind his keeper (or die trying) to avoid a red being given.

He did EXACTLY that which you say he didn't. Just re watched it too on everton tv to be sure, and the lad immediately begins to try and catch the Sunderland lad, and only stops after he has been taken down by Howard.

I do hope people check these details themselves rather than relying upon uninformed jarg like this. Slate Osman all you want for his awful control and mistake, but to then lie about his efforts to try and redeem himself is truly shocking.

You're better than that Davek. Poor stuff.

 

[Big Fat Sam]

He did EXACTLY that which you say he didn't. Just re watched it too on everton tv to be sure, and the lad immediately begins to try and catch the Sunderland lad, and only stops after he has been taken down by Howard.

I do hope people check these details themselves rather than relying upon uninformed jarg like this. Slate Osman all you want for his awful control and mistake, but to then lie about his efforts to try and redeem himself is truly shocking.

You're better than that Davek. Poor stuff.

TBH he didn't exactly peg it back to try and catch the attacker, did he?

Although is he capable of running nowadays? Have seen no evidence of that in a few years, so I'd probably doubt it.

 

[MikeH72]

How can a 20 year old professional footballer be "tired" after playing 3 games in a row? Osman played like a 40 year old when he was 25, and looks knackered after 20 minutes of one game. It's sad that he still gets minutes in the Premier League, for any side

 

[MikeH72]

This slaughtering of Osman generally is an absolute disgrace. Osman is a very skilled and accomplished player. Of course he makes mistakes (who doesn't), and of course he lacks inches and strength on the ball (he's in good company there eg Modric). But lets face it if he wasn't lacking in these departments we'd have cashed in on him with a big transfer fee many years ago.

I prefer to listen to those who have played alongside him and against him and he is universally rated by his peers.

Oh no, you didn't just compare Osman to Modric did you?

 

[mkrudden]

TBH he didn't exactly peg it back to try and catch the attacker, did he?

Although is he capable of running nowadays? Have seen no evidence of that in a few years, so I'd probably doubt it.

Yes, he did try and get back to Ki. So it's Osmans fault as well that he's not as quick as another player?! Deary me.

 

[Big Fat Sam]

Yes, he did try and get back to Ki. So it's Osmans fault as well that he's not as quick as another player?! Deary me.

He didn't attempt a sprint. Watch the highlights and you'll see. But I can only assume he didn't do so as he knows he's unable to run any more, so we have to sympathise with that.

It's not his fault he is selected, much like Neville when he always started for us despite being the worst player by a country mile; it's just sad.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It's always Leon. The new Phillip Neville.

Makes me laugh when people say "what if it was Barkley or Lukaku?" - completely brushing over the fact that those two - and others - have been excellent all season and hardly put a foot wrong.

Of course Osman will get slated, because he is ****ing useless. I am fuming here, crying and shaking (C+S), the lot.

Barkley was clean through against Swansea and did exactly what Osman did, albeit at the other end. One conceded a goal, one fluffed the scoring of one.

Of course no one is arguing that Osman is as talented as Ross is, he's clearly not. As a squad player in our team though he's been invaluable for the past decade.

But no, 300+ top flight games, couple of England caps, the guy is useless.

 

[toffeestillidie]

So much insanity in this thread. Osman tripped probably because he knew a player was bearing down on him and wanted to try to turn. Howard shouldn't have played the ball to him, playing the ball through the middle off a goal kick is just inviting trouble, and Osman should have been further up the pitch anyways.

But that doesn't mean Martinez got it wrong, players make mistakes all the time and there is no way as a manager you can possibly account for this. We shouldn't have to rely on Ross Barkley to beat a team at the bottom of the table at home, and were it not for a ridiculously fluky red card we would have probably won comfortably without him.

 

[davek]

Roberto will be slated if he leaves out Barkley v Southampton and we lose that too.

For that reason he'll start him.

So bearing that in mind: Do we REALLY have no other option but to play Osman? Sad state of affairs if so. Is our squad that short? Change the formation, give a youngster a try, play an extra centre back and go with wing backs... just don't play that useless crab ever again ffs.

I fully expert Osman to start though.

One thing in favour of that (the ONLY thing in its favour) is that Osman will be busting a gut to make amends. It could be that Martinez leaves him in to get that off him.

I dont make us favourite for that game, though. They have some very lively forward play from Lalana, Rodriguez, Lambert, and I dont see us keeping a clean sheet as things stand.

I wonder if Martinez recognises this and takes the opportunity to try something different by go with a different formation? He wont want to leave his two CBs coping with that S'ton firepower as our two FBs bomb forward. Up to now he's relied on McCarthyor Barry stepping back. With Barry out we'll lose some flexibility in that respect (Osman isn't up to that task he's so lightweight, and we certainly dont want Barkley playing that far back as a CM with responsibilities of that nature).

He's done 343 in the past when faced with adversity. I wonder if he'll see this as the moment to draft Stones in and do what he did pre-season v Juventus?

 

[davek]

He did EXACTLY that which you say he didn't. Just re watched it too on everton tv to be sure, and the lad immediately begins to try and catch the Sunderland lad, and only stops after he has been taken down by Howard.

I do hope people check these details themselves rather than relying upon uninformed jarg like this. Slate Osman all you want for his awful control and mistake, but to then lie about his efforts to try and redeem himself is truly shocking.

You're better than that Davek. Poor stuff.

He didn't 'do exactly' what I said he failed to do at all though did he?

I've looked at that again...yes, 'statue-esque' is pushing it, but he doesn't exactly bust a gut to get back either does he? He gets stripped of the ball, reacts slighty and then jogs behind the Korean as he bears down on Howard...there's no eyeballs out effort there I'm afraid. If that's your idea of covering fair enough. It isn't mine.

 

[bicycleheader]

This thread stinks. Mistakes happen, get over it.

If Osman starts in Barkleys position he will do fine. Get caught in possession couple times, misplace a couple passes but will do ok. Better than Naismith and his shocking control anywho.

If he starts in CM id be more worried about him getting caught on the ball though.

However Bobby is using the squad we have just fine. Osman is there to be used and has contributed enough to be the main rotational player above naismith jelly johnny and the others.

Butters - lukaku has not been excellent all season....about as valid as your opinion on Ossie really.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It will be interesting to see how Martinez has us lining up against Saints. Juve have nominally been playing a 3-5-2 this season.

We've been not a million miles from that. Against Swansea Barry was the man often going back into a back three, with the full-backs used far more in attack than defence. Mirallas was used more centrally too, with Coleman then providing the width on the right.

Might we see Stones or Alcaraz come into the back three therefore, with McCarthy then playing the Pirlo role alongside Osman and Barkley, with Mirallas up front with Lukaku/Jelavic, and Coleman/Oviedo/Baines providing the width?