Were we ever this bad....

[davek]

Moyes was the best of the last 20 years. Not saying he was a great manager, just the right man at the right time for us and his passion and eye for a bargain was enough to turn us from relegation candidates every year to top 6 most years under his tenure.

Martinez was lucky to inherit that team and by adding Lukaku, Barry and McCarthy it resulted in a fantastic season but one he was destined never to emulate, if anything he took it backwards.

He was as they say “all fart and nae 5hite” and completely clueless, which is why Wigan were relegated under him.

I have said time and time again, any team can have a run in the cups, you are judged on your league form.

Martinez inherited Moyes Dad's Army full of rubbish footballers with zero technique (or technique they kept well under wraps), and had them playing football on the deck and to feet and running up record wins and points totals. Moyes could have been here another 11 seasons and still never approached the team with such a strategy to play expansive winning football. He was a dullard. Plain and simple. A man found out when he left here when he destroyed United's dominance, turned a decent Spanish league team into the Dog & Duck, and hurtled Sunderland into the Championship with such a force they're not sticking around that league and are due to be in League One next season. Sgt Major Moyes does not belong in modern football. He's another dinosaur in the Allardyce and Pulis mould.

 

[Tubey]

We were very much this bad under Martinez. The difference is that with him you still had the feeling he wanted to go out and win every game - Allardyce, on the other hand, plays for a draw against Watford.

It's the difference between it being -5 degrees outside with or without a strong wind - one feels much colder than the other, even if they're both technically equal.

 

[Tubey]

Also, if for some bizarre reason we hadn't have sacked Martinez, we wouldn't be in this league anymore. That was a death spiral under him like no other; at least now we have the home form to keep us up - we had absolutely nothing under Martinez by the time he was axed.

 

[davek]

We were very much this bad under Martinez. The difference is that with him you still had the feeling he wanted to go out and win every game - Allardyce, on the other hand, plays for a draw against Watford.

It's the difference between it being -5 degrees outside with or without a strong wind - one feels much colder than the other, even if they're both technically equal.

Hardly 'technically equal'.

Do you think a top international team would ever trust Allardyce with getting them to a world cup and pushing on in that tournament?

...and that goes for Koeman, Moyes, Smith, Walker etc.

Martinez operates at a higher plain than them. He thinks tactically and strategically. His big downfall at Everton was actually believing he could continue to get a tune out of players like Baines, Jagielka, Howard and the other wasters, shirkers and Quislings. A very naive man. I'd have punted them the second I got to Everton.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

I might timestamp that third goal and post it any time someone suggests dropping Pickford for him.

A similar thought crossed my mind. Glory did not cover him for any of them !

 

[Tubey]

Hardly 'technically equal'.

Do you think a top international team would ever trust Allardyce with getting them to a world cup and pushing on in that tournament?

...and that goes for Koeman, Moyes, Smith, Walker etc.

Martinez operates at a higher plain than them. He thinks tactically and strategically. His big downfall at Everton was actually believing he could continue to get a tune out of players like Baines, Jagielka, Howard and the other wasters, shirkers and Quislings. A very naive man. I'd have punted them the second I got to Everton.

Allardyce got the England job and Koeman has the Holland job.

International jobs mean nothing. Belgium's previous manager was the unemployed Marc Wilmots and Georges "who the hell are you" Leekens - let's not pretend it's prestigious.

 

[davek]

Allardyce got the England job and Koeman has the Holland job.

International jobs mean nothing. Belgium's previous manager was the unemployed Marc Wilmots and Georges "who the hell are you" Leekens - let's not pretend it's prestigious.

I did say top international team.

 

[GwladysBlue]

Ha Ha Ha Ha.

Something funny, Dave, or are you just remembering things the way you want to again?

 

[Thomasc]

Martinez inherited Moyes Dad's Army full of rubbish footballers with zero technique (or technique they kept well under wraps), and had them playing football on the deck and to feet and running up record wins and points totals. Moyes could have been here another 11 seasons and still never approached the team with such a strategy to play expansive winning football. He was a dullard. Plain and simple. A man found out when he left here when he destroyed United's dominance, turned a decent Spanish league team into the Dog & Duck, and hurtled Sunderland into the Championship with such a force they're not sticking around that league and are due to be in League One next season. Sgt Major Moyes does not belong in modern football. He's another dinosaur in the Allardyce and Pulis mould.

Regardless of the difference in managerial styles and the types of football they encouraged, the Facts are Moyes has us competing in the top 6 with a bottom 6 budget.

You can claim Martinez was some sort of visionary all you like, but 99% of people with a modicum of intelligence know he was a blagger, which the players sussed our very quickly after his first season.

Seems you were a bit hoodwinked Dave, it’s not your fault, he was a smooth talking lothario.

Some of the stuff you are writing simply isn’t true either. Everton played some brilliant football under Moyes when we had Peinaar, Baines etc in full pomp

 

[Brendan Janus]

Regardless of the difference in managerial styles and the types of football they encouraged, the Facts are Moyes has us competing in the top 6 with a bottom 6 budget.

You can claim Martinez was some sort of visionary all you like, but 99% of people with a modicum of intelligence know he was a blagger, which the players sussed our very quickly after his first season.

Seems you were a bit hoodwinked Dave, it’s not your fault, he was a smooth talking lothario.

He was also a 'smooth criminal' !!

 

[Nyhus]

It's all relative isn't it? We are playing way below the level these players should be capable of, yet are still in the top half and not far off a European slot. So in absolute terms, we've had much worse teams than this, but those teams were generally full of yard dogs for whom we couldn't expect any better. The current squad has some very good players, we have a super crop of young talent and the struggles are very painful to watch.

Thats my main issue too. When we did well under Moyes, our team was ‘overperforming’, mainly because of work ethic and team spirit. Our current squad should get a easy top 8, even without a top goal scorer, yet we are missing what made those teams work out - Motivation and work ethic. There is no real fight in our squad now and caos or panic is never far from the equation.
On the positive side, I think that no matter who takes the reigns next season this squad will perform better - unless we buy too many new faces and expect to force them into the squad. If we bring in 3 players of real quality early in the window, that should suffice. Are there more needs, they should be seen to in January. We fell in the same trap the rs and Spurs fell into when trying to replace Bale and ratboy, bringing in too many new faces during a window with no real plan just doesnt work.

 

[Toffeelover]

Martinez inherited Moyes Dad's Army full of rubbish footballers with zero technique (or technique they kept well under wraps), and had them playing football on the deck and to feet and running up record wins and points totals. Moyes could have been here another 11 seasons and still never approached the team with such a strategy to play expansive winning football. He was a dullard. Plain and simple. A man found out when he left here when he destroyed United's dominance, turned a decent Spanish league team into the Dog & Duck, and hurtled Sunderland into the Championship with such a force they're not sticking around that league and are due to be in League One next season. Sgt Major Moyes does not belong in modern football. He's another dinosaur in the Allardyce and Pulis mould.

For his first season inherited a solid defence established by Moyes then that chucked and the next two seasons were a premier for the next load of rubbish.

 

[davek]

Regardless of the difference in managerial styles and the types of football they encouraged, the Facts are Moyes has us competing in the top 6 with a bottom 6 budget.

Average place finish 7th/8th (with a 17th thrown in that nearly killed us)...oh, and his budget was pretty healthy up till 2009 - £36M net spend in fact (which translates in today's inflated market to about £150M); there was a net spend every season except for when Rooney was sold, and a regularly breaking of our transfer record.

Your two fallacies nailed.

You can claim Martinez was some sort of visionary all you like, but 99% of people with a modicum of intelligence know he was a blagger, which the players sussed our very quickly after his first season.

Seems you were a bit hoodwinked Dave, it’s not your fault, he was a smooth talking lothario.

I dont claim he was a visionary. I state that he wanted to play attractive attacking possession based football....unlike the rest of the dogs who've been our manager in recent years. And I place the facts on the table of a never to be bettered PL season when it came together for him to prove that.

Some of the stuff you are writing simply isn’t true either. Everton played some brilliant football under Moyes when we had Peinaar, Baines etc in full pomp

Ha Ha Ha Ha.

No.

 

[Goat]

Average place finish 7th/8th (with a 17th thrown in that nearly killed us)...oh, and his budget was pretty healthy up till 2009 - £36M net spend in fact (which translates in today's inflated market to about £150M); there was a net spend every season except for when Rooney was sold, and a regularly breaking of our transfer record.

Your two fallacies nailed.


I dont claim he was a visionary. I state that he wanted to play attractive attacking possession based football....unlike the rest of the dogs who've been our manager in recent years. And I place the facts on the table of a never to be bettered PL season when it came together for him to prove that.

Ha Ha Ha Ha.

No.

Dave, please stop re-writing history.

Moyes spent 13m NET over his 11 years at the club.
We also went 2 years without signing a first team player.

By all means call him a bottler, by all means call him negative, but please, try and stick to FACTS regarding the money he had to spend.

 

[davek]

For his first season inherited a solid defence established by Moyes then that chucked and the next two seasons were a premier for the next load of rubbish.

Ha Ha ha. That old chestnut.

Wrong. Desperate and wrong.

We played a different way at the back under Martinez. The only carry over was the personnel.