Current Affairs Ukraine

[Bruce Wayne]

Incidentally, a recent Swedish paper argues that 70% of the global population lives in a dictatorship, which is the worst score since the wall fell in 1989.

https://v-dem.net/media/publications/dr_2022.pdf

The liberal world needs to up its game here.

 

[bluebud]

Another Russian convoy that won’t be rolling into a Ukrainian town

 

[davmaher]

That's extremely offensive. As far as I'm aware it is Zelensky and the Ukrainian people that are actively asking for military help and it is NATO that is choosing not to give it. Would it help to portray all those opposed to giving Zelensky the help he requests "pound shop Walters"?

In living memory we've had "the west" say to CZ to not bother defending themselves because they won't get any help, and to Poland that they can try and defend themselves (from two enemies) but they still won't get any help. What is it we stand for? Do we only intervene when there is oil at stake?

I don't know why you found my post offensive. I think you are being naive or disingenuous. If you think that any intervention by NATO that uses military force would not significantly risk a massive escalation of the problem you are living in cloud cuckoo land in my opinion. Zelensky has accepted that Ukraine will not become a member of NATO in the foreseeable future which would have been his best bet for getting NATO military support. The fact he has accepted this means to me that he does not expect any support beyond what we are doing with weapons provision and sanctions.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I don't know why you found my post offensive. I think you are being naive or disingenuous. If you think that any intervention by NATO that uses military force would not significantly risk a massive escalation of the problem you are living in cloud cuckoo land in my opinion. Zelensky has accepted that Ukraine will not become a member of NATO in the foreseeable future which would have been his best bet for getting NATO military support. The fact he has accepted this means to me that he does not expect any support beyond what we are doing with weapons provision and sanctions.

So tell me, how would a single Estonian (or Slovakian or Pole) being killed diminish the risk faced by NATO countries? Yet seemingly that is all it would take for the situation to materially change and NATO to go in en masse. All while schools, hospitals, and goodness knows what else is being bombed to crap in Ukraine.

 

[Frenk]

I don't know why you found my post offensive. I think you are being naive or disingenuous. If you think that any intervention by NATO that uses military force would not significantly risk a massive escalation of the problem you are living in cloud cuckoo land in my opinion. Zelensky has accepted that Ukraine will not become a member of NATO in the foreseeable future which would have been his best bet for getting NATO military support. The fact he has accepted this means to me that he does not expect any support beyond what we are doing with weapons provision and sanctions.

I understand this, but the U.S is already sending military equipment in the form of:

• 800 Stinger anti-aircraft systems;
• 2,000 Javelin, 1,000 light anti-armor weapons, and 6,000 AT-4 anti-armor systems;
• 100 Tactical Unmanned Aerial Systems;
• 100 grenade launchers, 5,000 rifles, 1,000 pistols, 400 machine guns, and 400 shotguns;
• Over 20 million rounds of small arms ammunition and grenade launcher and mortar rounds;
• 25,000 sets of body armor; and
• 25,000 helmets

That’s just the U.S. I’m sure others are too. Surely this would escalate things? If we don’t react when evil doers take hostage of the world what is the point in NATO or the U.N?

Isn’t there a humanitarian crisis going on here? Aren’t we supposed to in and help? A peace keeping force?

 

[Runub]

I honestly don’t get this, the U.S is already sending military equipment in the form of:

• 800 Stinger anti-aircraft systems;
• 2,000 Javelin, 1,000 light anti-armor weapons, and 6,000 AT-4 anti-armor systems;
• 100 Tactical Unmanned Aerial Systems;
• 100 grenade launchers, 5,000 rifles, 1,000 pistols, 400 machine guns, and 400 shotguns;
• Over 20 million rounds of small arms ammunition and grenade launcher and mortar rounds;
• 25,000 sets of body armor; and
• 25,000 helmets

That’s just the U.S. I’m sure others are too. Surely this would escalate things?

I'm with you. As I understand it the general idea is if NATO gets involved then that would be an escalation but it seems NATO members can arm Ukraine to the teeth and that is not an issue

 

[BrendanGOT]

I honestly don’t get this, the U.S is already sending military equipment in the form of:

• 800 Stinger anti-aircraft systems;
• 2,000 Javelin, 1,000 light anti-armor weapons, and 6,000 AT-4 anti-armor systems;
• 100 Tactical Unmanned Aerial Systems;
• 100 grenade launchers, 5,000 rifles, 1,000 pistols, 400 machine guns, and 400 shotguns;
• Over 20 million rounds of small arms ammunition and grenade launcher and mortar rounds;
• 25,000 sets of body armor; and
• 25,000 helmets

That’s just the U.S. I’m sure others are too. Surely this would escalate things? If we don’t react when evil doers take hostage of the world what is the point in NATO or the U.N?

Sending military aid isn't an act of war seemingly. Sending troops or no fly zones (as NATO would be shooting down Russian jets if they entered airspace) are and Russia has the right to retaliation.

Edit: and if that did happen it would be unlikely that we'd be just fighting against Russia.

 

[Yarrgh]

I honestly don’t get this, the U.S is already sending military equipment in the form of:

• 800 Stinger anti-aircraft systems;
• 2,000 Javelin, 1,000 light anti-armor weapons, and 6,000 AT-4 anti-armor systems;
• 100 Tactical Unmanned Aerial Systems;
• 100 grenade launchers, 5,000 rifles, 1,000 pistols, 400 machine guns, and 400 shotguns;
• Over 20 million rounds of small arms ammunition and grenade launcher and mortar rounds;
• 25,000 sets of body armor; and
• 25,000 helmets

That’s just the U.S. I’m sure others are too. Surely this would escalate things? If we don’t react when evil doers take hostage of the world what is the point in NATO or the U.N?

NATO exists to prop up NATO's military and 'defence' industries associated with it.

The UN is a talking shop that only achieves anything if there is a consensus.

 

[Frenk]

Sending military aid isn't an act of war. Sending troops or no fly zones (as NATO would be shooting down Russian jets) are and Russia has the right to retaliation

Sorry I accidentally posted. I was writing more.

Putin has already I believe said it is an act of war, so right there we have called his bluff. Military equipment is already shooting down Russian jets and blowing up tanks. What’s the difference. We are still destroying them.

 

[bluebud]

Destabilise the situation? how about not invading your neighbors then.

 

[Piijt]

The UN is a talking shop that only achieves anything if there is a consensus.

I’ve seen the UN in operation in various countries. I’ve yet to see them achieve anything apart from jobs for the boys.

 

[BrendanGOT]

Sorry I accidentally posted. I was writing more.

Putin has already I believe said it is an act of war, so right there we have called his bluff.

See the post just below yours by blubud. Seems military aid in form of Air defence will escalate assuming I'm reading that tweet correctly

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

To all the skeptics on here. It is pretty clear at some point Putin will use chemical weapons and NATO will have boots on the ground.

He(Putin) is a ranting maniac. You can't convince him anything when he lives in a Ivory tower/Mums basement.

 

[Frenk]

See the post just below yours by blubud. Seems military aid in form of Air defence will escalate assuming I'm reading that tweet correctly

But we are sending them in already.

 

[Frenk]

I’ve seen the UN in operation in various countries. I’ve yet to see them achieve anything apart from jobs for the boys.

Yeah and then you have the scandals.