Current Affairs Ukraine

[Ruairi77]

I think a reversal will be on the cards. Long run though, we do need to bolster/ implement proper anti-laundering laws and become more self-sufficient.

We also need Russia to be prosperous and a democracy like post war Germany became in order to stop the next Putin taking over and to stop this happening again.

cant see this happening till there's regime change there

 

[PhilM]

This is how to be edgy

My response would be, k’off.

In other news, reports again of more atrocities/war crimes.

 

[ste d' indica]

Well that's just it, I don't think that NATO can simply sit by and watch a country be slaughtered, or alternatively left completely defenseless in a "negotiation". I mean if we're saying that the best outcome for Ukraine is that they get rid of their army to broker a ceasefire then their only defence in future is going to come from NATO, so why not use NATO now? It's an absurd position to say that one Estonian (for instance) killed would provoke an armed response from NATO and to hell with the supposed threat of nuclear armageddon, but Putin can bomb the [Poor language removed] out of civilians in Ukraine and NATO won't intervene because of the supposed threat of nuclear armageddon. Logically that makes absolutely no sense at all. Morally it makes even less sense.

This is an example of what I mean @ste d' indica . NATO are sending machines that can kill Russians, which is supposedly okay, just so long as no actual Americans do so. Do we think Putin doesn't read the BBC?

I'm not saying its a palatable option, I'm not saying the Ukrainians should take it, or that they will take it. But given the US have ruled out NATO intervention, the other alternative is Ukraine keep fighting and civilians keep dying in heavier numbers. I think Russia have shown their hand and come up short, and that will play into all sides calculations and future security postures.
If there's a third way I'd be made up, but I'm struggling to see one.

 

[The binman chronicles]

I'm not saying its a palatable option, I'm not saying the Ukrainians should take it, or that they will take it. But given the US have ruled out NATO intervention, the other alternative is Ukraine keep fighting and civilians keep dying in heavier numbers. I think Russia have shown their hand and come up short, and that will play into all sides calculations and future security postures.
If there's a third way I'd be made up, but I'm struggling to see one.

Not going to get a better deal, without huge casualties anyhow and the more that happens the more likely they are to end up with a worse deal.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Well that's just it, I don't think that NATO can simply sit by and watch a country be slaughtered, or alternatively left completely defenseless in a "negotiation". I mean if we're saying that the best outcome for Ukraine is that they get rid of their army to broker a ceasefire then their only defence in future is going to come from NATO, so why not use NATO now? It's an absurd position to say that one Estonian (for instance) killed would provoke an armed response from NATO and to hell with the supposed threat of nuclear armageddon, but Putin can bomb the [Poor language removed] out of civilians in Ukraine and NATO won't intervene because of the supposed threat of nuclear armageddon. Logically that makes absolutely no sense at all. Morally it makes even less sense.

I’d say that the US is NATO and NATO is the US. NATO takes its lead from the US and the US will never risk open warfare with Russia over Ukraine, so this has become NATO’s de facto response.

I think if Russia had invaded a Central or South American country then the US would pile straight in, irrespective of whether that country was a NATO member or not.

Geopolitics at play in all its ugly glory

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

https://twitter.com/i/events/1504126737642311683

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I'm not saying its a palatable option, I'm not saying the Ukrainians should take it, or that they will take it. But given the US have ruled out NATO intervention, the other alternative is Ukraine keep fighting and civilians keep dying in heavier numbers. I think Russia have shown their hand and come up short, and that will play into all sides calculations and future security postures.
If there's a third way I'd be made up, but I'm struggling to see one.

I’d say that the US is NATO and NATO is the US. NATO takes its lead from the US and the US will never risk open warfare with Russia over Ukraine, so this has become NATO’s de facto response.

I think if Russia had invaded a Central or South American country then the US would pile straight in, irrespective of whether that country was a NATO member or not.

Geopolitics at play in all its ugly glory

It stinks. Every time Zelensky addresses the US, UK, EU et al pleading for actual help. Every time he gets cheered for his bravery. Every time he gets ignored.

 

[devogue]

Azov need to be disarmed and disbanded after the war but I have to say they seem like very good soldiers, perhaps worryingly so. All the videos from Mauripol of Russian tanks getting [Poor language removed] are coming from them.

 

[devogue]

 

[devogue]

Oh and Ukraine have managed to rescue one of the Mayors who got kidnapped lol

 

[PhilM]

I’d say that the US is NATO and NATO is the US. NATO takes its lead from the US and the US will never risk open warfare with Russia over Ukraine, so this has become NATO’s de facto response.

I think if Russia had invaded a Central or South American country then the US would pile straight in, irrespective of whether that country was a NATO member or not.

Geopolitics at play in all its ugly glory

Part of me has always felt that Ukraine's resilient defence has, to some extent, been an inconvenience to the West as governments never expected them to stand.

There was definitely an initial reluctance to support Ukraine because it was believed to be a lost cause; when it became apparent they weren't, they were forced.

It's also now at NATO's advantage to support them beyond the protection of members' borders, but rather it's draining and destabilising their key opponent.

Maybe I'm being cynical, but the longer the war goes on the better it may be for NATO as it will diminish the threat from Russia for an even longer period of time.

The sanctions are now in place, so the damage is mainly done*. Therefore, the more Russia's government, military and economy is damaged, the safer they'll be.

I can't see Russia's military being ready for any other major operation for a good few years, at least.

*Understandably, the sanctions are also impacting on economies and thinking objectively the sooner they're removed the better. The point is it's for the long haul.

 

[ste d' indica]

It stinks. Every time Zelensky addresses the US, UK, EU et al pleading for actual help. Every time he gets cheered for his bravery. Every time he gets ignored.

I completely agree.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

The article below would be making Putin more desperate if true and with sanctions it would appear legit - forcing him to ask China for help, trying to blitz Ukrainian civilians into submission and being more open to negotiation.



Whatever Ukraine decides to do for the best for them is right and proper but if they could hold on Putin would be facing real trouble.

 

[ste d' indica]

Part of me has always felt that Ukraine's resilient defence has, to some extent, been an inconvenience to the West as governments never expected them to stand.

There was definitely an initial reluctance to support Ukraine because it was believed to be a lost cause; when it became apparent they weren't, they were forced.

It's also now at NATO's advantage to support them beyond the protection of members' borders, but rather it's draining and destabilising their key opponent.

Maybe I'm being cynical, but the longer the war goes on the better it may be for NATO as it will diminish the threat from Russia for an even longer period of time.

The sanctions are now in place, so the damage is mainly done*. Therefore, the more Russia's government, military and economy is damaged, the safer they'll be.

I can't see Russia's military being ready for any other major operation for a good few years, at least.

*Understandably, the sanctions are also impacting on economies and thinking objectively the sooner they're removed the better. The point is it's for the long haul.

I think there's a lot in that to be honest, sadly.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Part of me has always felt that Ukraine's resilient defence has, to some extent, been an inconvenience to the West as governments never expected them to stand.

There was definitely an initial reluctance to support Ukraine because it was believed to be a lost cause; when it became apparent they weren't, they were forced.

It's also now at NATO's advantage to support them beyond the protection of members' borders, but rather it's draining and destabilising their key opponent.

Maybe I'm being cynical, but the longer the war goes on the better it may be for NATO as it will diminish the threat from Russia for an even longer period of time.

The sanctions are now in place, so the damage is mainly done*. Therefore, the more Russia's government, military and economy is damaged, the safer they'll be.

I can't see Russia's military being ready for any other major operation for a good few years, at least.

*Understandably, the sanctions are also impacting on economies and thinking objectively the sooner they're removed the better. The point is it's for the long haul.

Totally agree with all of that. The US and NATO are happy to see Russia bleed out and the Brucey bonus is watching it happen with the weapons they’ve supplied.

Once this is over the world will be a different place. As you say Russia will not be able to fund another operation on this scale and should become a lesser threat to its neighbours.

The world will look to replace Russian gas and oil with other alternatives. It will further drive renewable energy technology with re- investment in nuclear energy in the medium term.

Western Europe will tool-up defensively with nations drastically increasing defence spending.

Also I think there will be a radical re-posturing within the Russian Military - as they have seen first-hand as their government has willingly fed them into the meat-grinder. Hopefully this will fuel a power - shift within Russia and see Putin ousted from power.