Current Affairs Ukraine

[grandjoeblue]

No I'm not suggesting anything of the kind. And not one word of my original post even hints at that.

I believe our borders should be open with as little bureaucratic fuss as possible to those suffering from war or persecution.

What I found surprising was the attempt to portray any of this as a "Brexiteer" outrage given the naked racism of a number of E U regimes (oh, and let's throw Switzerland in to that mix).

My lot are those who identify as wanting to bury the fear of the other - without regard or the need for political labels.

Fair enough but there is a strong link between the anti migrant approach, the far right media and the brexit movement.

 

[slipstream86]

Genuine question: what's your opinion on Al Jazeera? I personally feel that it doesn't harbour the same bias that BBC, C4, CNN or sky do.

Think there’s likely deeper geopolitics going on there.

Al Jazeera is Qatari owned...Qatar and Russia are two of the biggest competitors in the international natural gas trade.

 

[Death]

One or two reports? They have their own tv channel - is it not available where you are?

I didn't like thier reporting tbh otherwise I would have watched more.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The reality of Priti Patel's "bespoke" humanitarian routes - Free Movement

On 28 February 2022 the Home Secretary told the House of Commons that a “bespoke humanitarian route” was being introduced for those fleeing the unlawful

www.freemovement.org.uk

 

[Ghost Rider]

Really don't get this 'bring the ukranians over here' thought process. Open the doors and let them all come here.

If ukranians wanted to come to the UK then there is a perfectly legal and way they could do that.

Ukranians want to live in their own country without it being invaded. Such a cop out attitude to have , bring them here but do nothing to fix the problem that means they have to come here. I know it's not as straight forward as saying that but the point still stands.


If Russia weren't invading then there would be no need to bring them here.

 

[sbbefc]

The reality of Priti Patel's "bespoke" humanitarian routes - Free Movement

On 28 February 2022 the Home Secretary told the House of Commons that a “bespoke humanitarian route” was being introduced for those fleeing the unlawful

www.freemovement.org.uk

Its a joke but not unexpected with this lot. Apparently my partners Auntie can come over but no one else in her family. So her sons wife and young kids will be stuck in Moldova with thousands of other people. God knows how Moldova is coping.

She won't leave anyway (doesn't want her son to be left alone (men can't leave)).

 

[larrygobfiend]

Really don't get this 'bring the ukranians over here' thought process. Open the doors and let them all come here.

If ukranians wanted to come to the UK then there is a perfectly legal and way they could do that.

Ukranians want to live in their own country without it being invaded. Such a cop out attitude to have , bring them here but do nothing to fix the problem that means they have to come here. I know it's not as straight forward as saying that but the point still stands.


If Russia weren't invading then there would be no need to bring them here.

Russia has invaded Ukraine, mate. I’m sure the vast majority of the poor families that are fleeing just wanted to stay in their own homes….

Where should they go?

 

[Tree13]

I think Russia will "win" many battles but they cannot prevail in the war, and have no chance of either conquering, or maintaining political control of the whole of Ukraine, unless extreme measures are taken.

Unless Putin is removed, and even then I don't see a suddenly pliant Russia, they have to and will make concessions.

The question is how Russia can be given a way out to end the conflict but feel that something has been secured on their side, to justify an end to hostilities.

I thought initially that Putin would seek to establish a bridge between Crimea and the DNR/LNR, hence the current concentration there, and maintenance of that may be their bottom line as time drags on. Currently I cannot see that as being acceptable to US/EU/NATO so its very difficult to see how things will pan out.

This, in spades. It seems fairly clear that Crimea, Donbass and an unbroken chain of territory linking the two is the absolute minimum that Russia is looking to seize permanently.

I suspect Putin was planning to take Kiev and absolutely everything east of the Dneipr, then "magnanimously" announcing a ceasefire. The Dneipr makes for a fairly significant strategic barrier, to satisfy misplaced Russian fears of a NATO conventional assault, and his commanders will have anticipated that Ukrainian troops would blow most of the bridges as they retreated, making it a more defensible barrier. It effectively cuts Ukraine in half, and the strategic value of Crimea, both militarily (provides year-round deepwater port for Russian fleet) and industrially (confers control of territorial water, therefore ownership, of areas of significant oil and natural gas reserves) is firmly established.

Ukraine will obviously want the return of every inch of territory seized by Russia since 2014, plus total reparations for the massive amounts of damage to roads, infrastructure, cities and everything else, plus the thousands of murdered civilians. As negotiations go, it's hard to see any common ground where either side is going to be happy to compromise.

 

[Lobster Johnson]

Really don't get this 'bring the ukranians over here' thought process. Open the doors and let them all come here.

If ukranians wanted to come to the UK then there is a perfectly legal and way they could do that.

Ukranians want to live in their own country without it being invaded. Such a cop out attitude to have , bring them here but do nothing to fix the problem that means they have to come here. I know it's not as straight forward as saying that but the point still stands.


If Russia weren't invading then there would be no need to bring them here.

There is the small matter of living in a war zone you've forgotten about there.

 

[Tree13]

Think there’s likely deeper geopolitics going on there.

Al Jazeera is Qatari owned...Qatar and Russia are two of the biggest competitors in the international natural gas trade.

Interesting take. Hadn't considered that, but it could well be true.

 

[Mrk]

The debate around Ukrainian refugees has quickly become completely polarised between two extremes - as usual.

On one hand you have "Don't let them come" and on the other you have "Just accept [insert arbitrary number here] now".

What ever happened to nuance.

 

[Tree13]

I didn't like thier reporting tbh otherwise I would have watched more.

Do you perceive them to have a bias along the lines of the one you identify with BBC / C4 et al?

 

[Lobster Johnson]

The debate around Ukrainian refugees has quickly become completely polarised between two extremes - as usual.

On one hand you have "Don't let them come" and on the other you have "Just accept [insert arbitrary number here] now".

What ever happened to nuance.

The internet.

 

[Tree13]

The debate around Ukrainian refugees has quickly become completely polarised between two extremes - as usual.

On one hand you have "Don't let them come" and on the other you have "Just accept [insert arbitrary number here] now".

What ever happened to nuance.

We have a mainstream media that isn't interested in pushing nuance. Emotional triggers are easy to manipulate, and therefore make more money for the media corporations.

 

[Tree13]

There is the small matter of living in a war zone you've forgotten about there.

To be fair to @Ghost Rider , he clearly didn't forget about the war zone. He explicitly referred to it.

The suggestion that we should be doing everything we can to bring hostilities to a halt AT THE SAME TIME as providing shelter and assistance to refugees is perfectly reasonable. In fact, it's preferable to "Let Putin conquer Ukraine unopposed because all fighting is bad, including any fighting that comes about from resisting violent illegal acts of base tyranny. Just uproot 45m Ukrainians and resettle them ALL across several member states of the EU."