Not looking good now. Concerning.
Current Affairs Ukraine
- Thread starter Mutzo Nutzo
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NilSatisOptimum
Player Valuation: £70m
Give it a rest with the British exceptionalism, even the threat of war the bitter puss of Brexit seeps out. Germany as they take over next year are part "NATO Ready Force" currently French lead, in essence will be first to the front line with their citizens, not just sending their toys.
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No agenda from me my friend. Just keeping it real.
Fact is Germany refused U.K. overflights for C17’s loaded with weapons for Ukraine. You can draw your own conclusions from that
FrenchDarrenBent
Player Valuation: £20m
That the brexit dividend right there! Unlimited export of weapons to (future) warzones. No matter where or why...
No mate. Big talks in Geneva today between US and Russia. Not holding out much hope though. I fear that Ukraine is about to be bombed back into the Stone Age.
So you’re’ quite happy to let Ukraine get on with it on their own?
They are screaming for help from their European neighbours. They are about to be invaded by Russia and you think it’s a Brexit thing?
On a side note Estonia and Lithuania are now shipping ATGM’s and more importantly manpads to Ukraine.
The Czech Republic has also started shipping artillery ammo to Ukraine
FrenchDarrenBent
Player Valuation: £20m
I fail to see what interest the US or the UK have in this quarrel other than 'weakening' Russia...
Let's keep out of it. Remember what happened last time we supported 'democracy-loving rebels' in Syria. Now that went well, did it? A lot of these weapons might fall into the hands of right wing extremists. The Ukrainian state has not been able to control & contain them lately...
tsubaki
Player Valuation: £90m
lol @ that last line, something straight out of Putin’s mouth to your brain
The interventions in the ME were disastrous - this is different, it’s a sovereign nation, recognised by everyone, asking for help against another nation who has similar beefs with our military allies.
I don’t want war, but Putin (and this mindset of the Russians nationalists) is a clear threat to all of us and it’s got to be dealt with. Ideally this would be diplomatically, but if they don’t want that then there has to be a big cost for them.
Ukraine is an independant sovereign nation, with the right to make their own decisions on where and how their future should lie. They actively requested to join NATO, as is their right as a free nation.
Russia feels threatened by the advancement east of NATO (The baltic states, Romania, Bulgaria, Poland) and wants to re-establish its sphere of influence in eastern Europe - hence the current power play on Ukraines borders. This is a very different scenario to Syria.
Ukraine requested support from NATO and other european states to help defend itself against Russia. The UK and US have resisted requests to provide troops, aircraft and offensive military equipment (artillery, tanks), but have agreed to provide defensive military equipment for Ukraine. Now other European countries have begun to ship weapons and ammunition to help Ukraine (Estonia, Lithuania, Czech Republic, Holland).
These are not aggresive moves by NATO. Russia is the aggressor here. I'm hearing that talks in geneva are not going well as Russia has just put a proposal on the table that NATO should remove all military presence from Bulgaria or Romania. (Bit odd as both these countries are already members of NATO). Its kinda like the impossible proposal. Blinken will chase lavrov on this and then Russia will have their pretext for war as according to them "all avenues have been explored but no compromise could be found".
If we stand by and do nothing - who's next for Russia's expansion plan (The Baltic states, Poland)? At the same time we cannot risk the possibility of all out war with Russia due to the obvious. So the US is placing it's faith in sanctions. If Russia invades they will hit the SWIFT button effectively cutting off Russia from all international financial infrastructure. Can Russia survive this?
FrenchDarrenBent
Player Valuation: £20m
No it isn't. It's a well established fact. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary-idUSKBN1GV2TY
+ several EU watchdogs warn for them.
He's no threat to us. Never was.
FrenchDarrenBent
Player Valuation: £20m
That's not my point. This is: Sending missiles, bazookas & other beautiful weaponry to a massively corrupt country (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Ukraine), in state of civil war, with barely any oversight, is just asking for trouble. The real victims, as always, will be the civilians.
Poland & the Baltic States are NATO members. He won't do that, let's solve these problems when they arise.
Sanctions will hit us hard too. Gas prices will soar. I also dont think these sanctions really scare the Russian establishment. They have prepared: https://www.ft.com/content/a2eaba73-cec8-4a0f-b991-7de558bb0ee1
Putin wouldn't risk this if he didn't have the full backing of his oligarchs & other mafia-lords.
I wouldn't be opposed to granting Ukraine a 'Neutral' status & being excluded from NATO for at least 30 years, if that's what it takes to keep peace.
It's OK. Biden said they could have Sudetenland 
sbbefc
Player Valuation: £30m
It's a foggy situation and one that isn't as clear cut as many westerners might think. Many people who live there see themselves as Russian/Ukrainian and many people would be more than happy to be part of Putins Russia. Culturally and ethnically there's little between them (sorry to any Ukrainians /Russians disagree with this statement). There's arguably just as much of a difference between the Welsh and English, there's certainly more of a difference between both of the languages.
My partners Ukrainian and her parents would be more than happy if the Ukraine was to be absorbed into Russia again. There's a lot of propaganda and it works both ways, in contrast, her grandmother (who was still living in the Ukraine until she passed away every recently), would refuse to speak Russian to anyone and only Ukrainian, her profession was a Russian teacher!
It's a sovereign state though, and any show of force/war is unacceptable.
My partners Ukrainian and her parents would be more than happy if the Ukraine was to be absorbed into Russia again. There's a lot of propaganda and it works both ways, in contrast, her grandmother (who was still living in the Ukraine until she passed away every recently), would refuse to speak Russian to anyone and only Ukrainian, her profession was a Russian teacher!
It's a sovereign state though, and any show of force/war is unacceptable.
Sassy Colombian
Member: Team PoP
The US has also said they are prepared to provide the Ukrainian Government with weapons and military equipment to fight Russia. I’m sure the US arm industry is licking its lips at the prospect of supplying weapons for Ukraine. This situation is very concerning and I’m afraid it could lead to innocent Ukrainians getting killed
I think that the UK, US and all other nations sending arms to Ukraine went through a long period of deliberation (based on the fears that you highlighted) before agreeing to the shipments. There is a fear that giving them equipment such as MANPAD's could back-fire in the future if they fall into the wrong hands and are used to bring down a commercial airliner. However looking at the outcome for Ukraine doing nothing doesn't bear thinking about - so it's a case of doing something with an agreed and acceptable amount of risk.
Yes I agree that sanctions alone will not halt Russia. We have seen recently that they have moved heavily into the crypto-trading markets and are doing international deals with Gold instead of dollars. However they will still be severley impacted by sanctions and internal pressure will mount on Putin.
My own thoughts are that this is an orchestrated set of events by Putin to achieve his ultimate goal and that is to invade Eastern Ukraine, advance and swiftly in the east to the Dnipro river. In the north he will invade from Belarus and easily surround Kiev. In the south he will launch an assault from Crimea to capture the port of Odessa. This will probably take him a few months to achieve and Russia can deffo withstand the international sanctions to this point.
At this point he then calls a truce and agrees to withdraw his forces back into Belarus and away from odessa, but he will not hand back the land east of the Dnipr as this gives him what he wanted from the very start - a land bridge from Russia to Crimea and the port of Mariupol.
All this bluff and bluster about NATO is just a pretext for invasion - classic maskirovka
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