Current Affairs Ukraine

[John from Bootle]

Not once mentioned Stalin though, just a tirade about Russia and the russian people, from a country that experienced absolutely nothing in compassion.

Didn't need to mention Stalin. I listed some facts that Stalin was responsible for.

Yes, the Russian lives lost is tragic, but it's all on Stalin, who constantly cried that nobody was coming to help. This is despite the fact that the lend lease deal saved his and Russia's arse.

"lost nothing in comparison" - maybe they should have thought about that before they went all in with Hitler, and pushed for the displacement and murder of Poles and Fin's alike.

Russia didn't win WWII, they were complicit and instrumental in it's outbreak. They saved their own arse in the end, with massive help from the west, and sure, their battles with the German's certainly helped the Allies achieve their goal, but this notion they have of them being the one's who paid the ultimate sacrifice is bullcrap. They only acted out of self interest and as already said, they were happy to jump in to bed with Hitler when they thought it would benefit them.

The Russian lives lost could have been avoided if different decisions were taken, but Russia was too blinded and excited by the prospect of a land grab to take the threat of the German's seriously.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Russia: use of western non-nuclear missiles by Ukraine against Russia could lead to nuclear response​

Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov has said the use of western non-nuclear missiles by the Ukrainian armed forces against the Russian Federation under the new doctrine could lead to a nuclear response, after president Vladimir Putin approved an updated Russian nuclear doctrine on Tuesday.

Speaking at his regular daily press briefing, Tass reports Peskov said that the new nuclear doctrine should become the subject of deep analysis both in the country and abroad.

Peskov said that the Russian Federation considers the use of nuclear weapons to be an extreme measure, but that updating the doctrine was needed to bring the document into line with the current political situation.

Peskov said the “special operation” – Moscow’s preferred term for its full-scale invasion of Ukraine – was being conducted in the context of a war unleashed by the west against the Russian Federation, and that the Russian military is closely monitoring the reports about plans to use longer-range US missiles in the Kursk region of Russia.

Looks like they may have just crossed another red line.

An army base/ arms depot in Bryansk Oblast was malleted last night.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Steve gets a bit wound up in this thread doesn't he?

Bit of a shame, he's got some really great points and insights from a different perspective. But it always seems to end up in a lot of whataboutery.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Steve gets a bit wound up in this thread doesn't he?

Bit of a shame, he's got some really great points and insights from a different perspective. But it always seems to end up in a lot of whataboutery.

I agree. He has a unique perspective however it’s all a wee bit too personal for him I think.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Looks like they may have just crossed another red line.

An army base/ arms depot in Bryansk Oblast was malleted last night.

This...

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

This...

Yup that’s the one. There was a video of what appeared to be a vapour trail of the missile and it was almost vertical indicating a ballistic trajectory rather than a flatter cruise missile trajectory.

Having said that Ukraine announced a few weeks ago that they were producing their own ballistic missiles so it could have been one of them.

Will have to wait and see if Russia roll out bits of the missile.

 

[dublinbluenose]

Russia: use of western non-nuclear missiles by Ukraine against Russia could lead to nuclear response​

Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov has said the use of western non-nuclear missiles by the Ukrainian armed forces against the Russian Federation under the new doctrine could lead to a nuclear response, after president Vladimir Putin approved an updated Russian nuclear doctrine on Tuesday.

Speaking at his regular daily press briefing, Tass reports Peskov said that the new nuclear doctrine should become the subject of deep analysis both in the country and abroad.

Peskov said that the Russian Federation considers the use of nuclear weapons to be an extreme measure, but that updating the doctrine was needed to bring the document into line with the current political situation.

Peskov said the “special operation” – Moscow’s preferred term for its full-scale invasion of Ukraine – was being conducted in the context of a war unleashed by the west against the Russian Federation, and that the Russian military is closely monitoring the reports about plans to use longer-range US missiles in the Kursk region of Russia.

999 days ago the red line was ANY assistance to Ukraine was to be responded to with a Nuclear weapon.

 

[BlueToff]

Let's all do what war criminal Putin wants

Putin's a war criminal.

So is Biden.

So is Bush.

So is Blair.

I'd argue Obama is too.

Not really a solid argument chief.

I remember getting told I was wrong nearly two years ago for saying this was a proxy war. It's gone on far too long and somehow it needs to end in as little violence as possible (namely for the poor people in Ukraine). Ultimately at this stage it's going to mean concessions or it just carries on and carries on.

Putin's an egomaniac lunatic (that's not to say he's stupid) and is clearly wrong. But I don't think anyone from any Western government comes out of this well either.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Putin's a war criminal.

So is Biden.

So is Bush.

So is Blair.

I'd argue Obama is too.

Not really a solid argument chief.

I remember getting told I was wrong nearly two years ago for saying this was a proxy war. It's gone on far too long and somehow it needs to end in as little violence as possible (namely for the poor people in Ukraine). Ultimately at this stage it's going to mean concessions or it just carries on and carries on.

Putin's an egomaniac lunatic (that's not to say he's stupid) and is clearly wrong. But I don't think anyone from any Western government comes out of this well either.

Thanks chief. The situation is incredibly complex. It’s clear that many leaders, both from the West and Russia, have made decisions that have led to significant harm and loss of life. The idea of accountability is important but I’d suggest that we should use history as a guide to raise standards, not lower them. Whataboutery is a sure fire way to repeat the same mistakes.

Sadly, as many western leaders have come to understand the only way to stop this repeated behaviour from Putin and Russia is through strength and defeat, not appeasement.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

AC on the money again.

Imposing neutrality on Ukraine will not stop Putin or bring peace to Europe

Imposing neutrality on Ukraine will not bring about a durable peace in Europe. On the contrary, it would leave Ukraine at Putin’s mercy and set the stage for a new Russian invasion, writes Mykola Bielieskov.

www.atlanticcouncil.org

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

This thread might be worth a read for some.

 

[davek]

Putin's a war criminal.

So is Biden.

So is Bush.

So is Blair.

I'd argue Obama is too.

Not really a solid argument chief.

I remember getting told I was wrong nearly two years ago for saying this was a proxy war. It's gone on far too long and somehow it needs to end in as little violence as possible (namely for the poor people in Ukraine). Ultimately at this stage it's going to mean concessions or it just carries on and carries on.

Putin's an egomaniac lunatic (that's not to say he's stupid) and is clearly wrong. But I don't think anyone from any Western government comes out of this well either.

You can be 100% sure that all the families of the men serving in the Ukraine military were punching the air when Trump won that election.

They've had enough. They've paid the price. They've borne the brunt of the human misery. Those that have kids of military age are shoving them across borders to avoid this.

It will be over soon. Thank goodness. As much as some want this to go on forever so they can get a buzz out of the war 'games'. it WILL be over shortly.

And when it's over the Ukrainians will be able to choose their next political leaders and scores will be settled...and I'd imagine scores will be settled in other less civil ways too. That's all to come.

 

[Eidean]

You can be 100% sure that all the families of the men serving in the Ukraine military were punching the air when Trump won that election.

They've had enough. They've paid the price. They've borne the brunt of the human misery. Those that have kids of military age are shoving them across borders to avoid this.

It will be over soon. Thank goodness. As much as some want this to go on forever so they can get a buzz out of the war 'games'. it WILL be over shortly.

And when it's over the Ukrainians will be able to choose their next political leaders and scores will be settled...and I'd imagine scores will be settled in other less civil ways too. That's all to come.

& then Russia can focus their attention into Georgia, then might even come back for some more in Ukraine.

Happy days.

 

[davek]

& then Russia can focus their attention into Georgia, then might even come back for some more in Ukraine.

Happy days.

Ae you saying you want a continuation of the war?

 

[Eidean]

Ae you saying you want a continuation of the war?

Nope I want an end to it, with protections for the Ukrainians that they won’t be invaded again in the short term.

What I want & what’ll happen are two different things though so there we go.