Current Affairs Ukraine

[Drico]

Sorry Comrade you are spewing hate that's all. Your type will have Trump in the White House in no time. Then you will be right.

What are you on about? I don't have a vote in the US election, but only a fascist or an imbecile would not vote for Biden. He is the only game in town.

Talk about misreading somebody's intentions.

I object to hypocrisy. If we want to save Ukraine - and share the risk burden - let's allow them into NATO. If we do not want to do that - and I understand and largely agree with the reasons why there is little appetite for this - then we have got to stop pretending that we can help Ukraine win while simultaneously sharing the risk burden equally. We are in damage limitation mode if we do not allow the Ukrainians in. Destroying the credibility of European finance while American MAGA politicians refuse to send more aid to Ukraine is not my idea of equal risk sharing.

As has been pointed out by others, this is all an argument for European strategic autonomy. While we often struggle to rely on our 27 members to do the right thing, we definitely cannot rely on the US to. So, we need to get our own house in order, increase support for Ukraine, and hope our erstwhile "allies" across the Atlantic don't lose their marbles for a second time in November by electing the Orangutan out of real hate.

 

[Drico]

There is an argument that such a move as seizing assets could be formally or informally agreed that in future any states illegally invading a sovereign nation could face the same. It wouldn't go down well with autocratic or imperialist nations.

Let's start with a country that the US is massively exposed to. Then there will be no excuses for anyone.

 

[Drico]

If you reread all his comments you can make your own judgement. Everything suggested was anti American. It's like Biden has done nout to help Ukraine. He can believe what he wants but this kind of narrative needs to stay in the political threads.

Biden has done lots. It's the MAGA headbangers who have undermined him completely. Biden has been APPALLING on Israel. That's my beef with him.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Let's start with a country that the US is massively exposed to. Then there will be no excuses for anyone.

It looks if they are going down this path, that Russia will be the test case, and line in the sand.

 

[Drico]

It looks if they are going down this path, that Russia will be the test case, and line in the sand.

The Americans are not massively exposed to Russia. The Netherlands, Cyprus, Germany, France, and the UK are. over €223b of the estimated €288b western assets in Russia are European. How very convenient. Furthermore, of the €269b of frozen Russian assets, €200b of them are in the EU.

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www.reuters.com

https://www.reuters.com/business/west-stands-lose-least-288-bln-assets-if-russian-assets-seized-ria-2024-01-21/

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

The Americans are not massively exposed to Russia. The Netherlands, Cyprus, Germany, France, and the UK are. How very convenient. Of the €269b of frozen Russian assets, €200b of them are in the EU.

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www.reuters.com

I understand what you're saying mate

 

[Drico]

I understand what you're saying mate

Sorry, one can't be sure anymore if one's point of view is being misconstrued as "spewing hate".

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

What are you on about? I don't have a vote in the US election, but only a fascist or an imbecile would not vote for Biden. He is the only game in town.

Talk about misreading somebody's intentions.

I object to hypocrisy. If we want to save Ukraine - and share the risk burden - let's allow them into NATO. If we do not want to do that - and I understand and largely agree with the reasons why there is little appetite for this - then we have got to stop pretending that we can help Ukraine win while simultaneously sharing the risk burden equally. We are in damage limitation mode if we do not allow the Ukrainians in. Destroying the credibility of European finance while American MAGA politicians refuse to send more aid to Ukraine is not my idea of equal risk sharing.

As has been pointed out by others, this is all an argument for European strategic autonomy. While we often struggle to rely on our 27 members to do the right thing, we definitely cannot rely on the US to. So, we need to get our own house in order, increase support for Ukraine, and hope our erstwhile "allies" across the Atlantic don't lose their marbes for a second time in November by electing the Orangutan out of real hate.

This is a more toned downed rhetoric. I understand a little clearer what you are trying to say but the Putin energy weapon put everyone in harms way. I would hope whatever happens during this conflict that if any EU country wants to reintroduce this madness again that is up to their Nations hierarchy not any US Corporation plot. It's just too easy to get into a blame game. I agree EU needs to up their game in security if they believe Putin is on the rampage again that is up to them. Cost of living has been impacted greatly due to weaning of Russian energy.
As I have said before Trump is a nutter should be in jail and is a wildcard for the future. MAGA republicans do not understand the risks associated in not helping Ukraine as quickly as possible they will when American boots are on the ground because of dithering.
Ukraine has been Steller in stopping the Russian Empire but they do need help. But having the comment putting Ukraine under the bus by the US was totally misleading to this thread and won't go not called out on.

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

Let's start with a country that the US is massively exposed to. Then there will be no excuses for anyone.

Why do you think the US needs to be involved in the mix? They don't. They could let Putin run rule. Corruption perhaps?

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

Sorry, one can't be sure anymore if one's point of view is being misconstrued as "spewing hate".

As predicted by some of us, the Ukrainians are being slowly thrown under a bus by the Americans. It will only get worse as the year goes on and Trump looms. This was always going to happen.

Not hate just ego boosting then.

Hopefully, your future predictions do not come true.

 

[peteblue]

Europe needs to rearm, and restore indigenous defence production at least to the level of matching production for Ukraine plus building stockpiles sufficient for a major conflict. We (UK and EU together) have to be in a position of strategic independence by next January.

The U.K. is already in a position of strategic independence. Russia cannot invade the U.K. We have our own nuclear deterrent. I’m sure the EU will keep pushing for the U.K. to join a European army/defence force or whatever, but we should stick with NATO, we pay our way and work well with the USA….

 

[Yarrgh]

If you reread all his comments you can make your own judgement. Everything suggested was anti American. It's like Biden has done nout to help Ukraine. He can believe what he wants but this kind of narrative needs to stay in the political threads.

Biden has and would do more. His hands are currently tied by the nature of passing acts through the system.

It is what it is. Unless anyone knows how to knock some heads together in the house of representatives then it plays into Russia's hands.

 

[Martin Alvito]

As predicted by some of us, the Ukrainians are being slowly thrown under a bus by the Americans. It will only get worse as the year goes on and Trump looms. This was always going to happen.

I notice today that, apparently, the five biggest western oil companies have made €300b from the war. Notice how there is plenty of crazy talk of seizing and spending €300b in frozen Russian assets (mainly held by Europeans) on reconstructing Ukraine with all the obvious danger to Europe that that would entail, but no suggestion of doing similar with these blood oil profits (a huge chunk of which are American).

We’re being played.

Sustained political will is not a long suit of our population. If you bomb American soil, that's different. Otherwise, well, we're the nation of pills and injections over diet and exercise, fast food, convenience apps and 'reality' television.

Europe needs to rearm, and restore indigenous defence production at least to the level of matching production for Ukraine plus building stockpiles sufficient for a major conflict. We (UK and EU together) have to be in a position of strategic independence by next January.

You do, but it's not feasible. The good news is that Russia can't move westward, and Chinese warships won't sail in that direction. You have time to build the smokestacks and secure the raw materials.

I agree with the sentiment that we are no longer a reliable ally now that Rand/Ron Paul isolationism has gone mainstream, though.

 

[Yarrgh]

There is an argument that such a move as seizing assets could be formally or informally agreed that in future any states illegally invading a sovereign nation could face the same. It wouldn't go down well with autocratic or imperialist nations.

... can we seize own money?

Joking apart, anything that stops our financial institutions and in turn our governments being unduly influenced and stops allowing despotic and corrupt states and individuals laundering their cash here is a good thing.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

I'll stick this in here because it fits under Putin's planning.

In unusual move, China offers to back Hungary in security matters​

By Liz Lee and Ryan Woo
February 19, 20244:53 AM GMTUpdated 11 hours ago

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www.reuters.com

And the another part of Putin's puzzle.