Current Affairs Ukraine

[Mutzo Nutzo]

It's considered superior for performing the sort of tasks the Ukrainians really want to perform: such as blowing up the Kerch Bridge, as you rightly say.

Yes, the Germans are concerned the tech will fall into Russian hands, but that's actually a convenient excuse that gives cover to the real fear, which is if the Ukrainians blow up the Kerch Bridge with a German system, it's the Germans who will get the blowback. This will not take the form of a strike on Berlin. It will take the form of our trains suddenly stopping (which already briefly happened earlier in the war as a warning), or our electricity failing: critical infrastructural attacks with plausible deniability that bring the country to a halt and into chaos.

For these reasons, it would be a very foolish German chancellor who will approve the delivery of Taurus. Then there are the historical reasons. The Russians are terrified of the Germans - but the same can be said in return. Scholz will come up with every excuse - US export restrictions, sensitive tech falling into enemy hands, etc. - to prevent export of Taurus. But then, that's not unique to Germany. All along we've heard the Americans insist that their tech is not used for attacks in Russia itself. Crimea, to many in the West, is a grey area. The Ukrainians insist it is Ukraine, but this insistence is not universally shared in the West (the Germans weren't too put out by the Russian annexation in 2014) - and it is certainly not shared when it comes to using some Western systems in that peninsula. The Germans won't be taking any chances.

Yes I understand the German position - whereas US/U.K./France have donated older armaments that were sitting around in warehouses or kit that is due to be phased out/replaced, So concerns around Russia capturing tech is not as relevant in this case.

Germany however is being asked to provide its current and future deep strike weapon and I can understand the concern surrounding this move as well as the threat of retaliation from Russia (in whatever form it takes).

As you say we don’t see the US providing its latest weaponry to Ukraine for those very same reasons.

In summary I think Germany has provided a shed load of really useful gear to Ukraine (Leopards, Gepards, Marders etc…). So Ukraine or any other western nation really shouldn’t be grumbling about this situation - Ukraine will simply have to find another way to drop the bridge.

 

[Drico]

Yes I understand the German position - whereas US/U.K./France have donated older armaments that were sitting around in warehouses or kit that is due to be phased out/replaced, So concerns around Russia capturing tech is not as relevant in this case.

Germany however is being asked to provide its current and future deep strike weapon and I can understand the concern surrounding this move as well as the threat of retaliation from Russia (in whatever form it takes).

As you say we don’t see the US providing its latest weaponry to Ukraine for those very same reasons.

In summary I think Germany has provided a shed load of really useful gear to Ukraine (Leopards, Gepards, Marders etc…). So Ukraine or any other western nation really shouldn’t be grumbling about this situation - Ukraine will simply have to find another way to drop the bridge.

Thanks for the reasoned response.

 

[edge]

Yes I understand the German position - whereas US/U.K./France have donated older armaments that were sitting around in warehouses or kit that is due to be phased out/replaced, So concerns around Russia capturing tech is not as relevant in this case.

Germany however is being asked to provide its current and future deep strike weapon and I can understand the concern surrounding this move as well as the threat of retaliation from Russia (in whatever form it takes).

As you say we don’t see the US providing its latest weaponry to Ukraine for those very same reasons.

In summary I think Germany has provided a shed load of really useful gear to Ukraine (Leopards, Gepards, Marders etc…). So Ukraine or any other western nation really shouldn’t be grumbling about this situation - Ukraine will simply have to find another way to drop the bridge.

Germany is more or less in the front line if it kicks off.
Don't for one minute blame them for keeping the Russians at bay further East.
Looks like the way it's panning out unless the Ukrainian forces get new tech , its going to turn into a defensive situation for them come spring.
Really think they might have to form a defensive line and let the Russians waste men and equipment agaist it .
Going forwards unless the west comes across with more game changers can't see how they move forwards.

 

[Drico]

That all sounds a bit like a continuation of this.

Putin’s useful German idiots

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is a repudiation of a whole generation of German politicians from across the spectrum.

www.politico.eu

It - my post and the German reasons for not sending Taurus - sound eminently reasonable to me as somebody living in Germany.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

It - my post and the German reasons for not sending Taurus - sound eminently reasonable to me as somebody living in Germany.

Germany is a great country with great, capable people who are respected as such. As long as we Europeans can stand shoulder to shoulder we will be alright, despite the best efforts of some privileged buffoons here in the UK.

 

[Drico]

Germany is a great country with great, capable people who are respected as such. As long as we Europeans can stand shoulder to shoulder we will be alright, despite the best efforts of some privileged buffoons here in the UK.

Plenty of buffoons here in Germany, too, sadly. Overall, we've been fortunate that moderates have tended to win power, but I wonder what will happen after the next election. There is no leader on the conservative side with the gravitas of Chancellor Merkel. For all her many mistakes, she had a global stature and genuine moral authority. Her instincts were largely sound. Her tactics, not always as good. But overall, she was head and shoulders above much of what was around her at home and abroad.

Her successor, Friedrich Merz, is a dangerous head-banger. I suspect the current government leading party, Olaf Scholz's SPD, will moderate his excesses if push comes to shove. Far better that than Merz throwing shapes to get the AfD onside. I wouldn't put it beyond him.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Russia's pursuit of a space-based nuclear weapon raises national security concerns in Washington

The House Intelligence Committee chairman warned of a "serious national security threat" without providing details. Three sources said it pertained to Moscow's efforts to target U.S. satellites.

www.nbcnews.com

The internet has decided that the above means that Russia have built a Death Star

 

[PKwalnuts]

Russia's pursuit of a space-based nuclear weapon raises national security concerns in Washington

The House Intelligence Committee chairman warned of a "serious national security threat" without providing details. Three sources said it pertained to Moscow's efforts to target U.S. satellites.

www.nbcnews.com

The internet has decided that the above means that Russia have built a Death Star

Tsar Wars

 

[Taifi gorm]

Ah bless, wee Vlad finished his Christmas present.

 

[Yarrgh]

Kissing an ass beats @#£%ing a pig though.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

First the Death Star, now this!

Putin says Russia is close to creating cancer vaccines​

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www.reuters.com

Joking aside it would be absolutely fantastic if they are on the path. If he'd declared war on cancer and not Ukraine he could have cemented his place in positive history.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

 

[efcfanwirral]

First the Death Star, now this!

Putin says Russia is close to creating cancer vaccines​

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www.reuters.com

Joking aside it would be absolutely fantastic if they are on the path. If he'd declared war on cancer and not Ukraine he could have cemented his place in positive history.

In reality that's actually another reason for America to go to war with Russia. That's a LOT of profit lost from the pharmaceutical industries, and as a knock on less money from the pharmaceutical lobby to the politicians.

 

[Aberblue]

First the Death Star, now this!

Putin says Russia is close to creating cancer vaccines​

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www.reuters.com

Joking aside it would be absolutely fantastic if they are on the path. If he'd declared war on cancer and not Ukraine he could have cemented his place in positive history.

I rather suspect that President Putin is being less than truthful here.