Current Affairs Ukraine

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I suppose it depends on who you ask. What do the 20 million dead think?

As I said, part of the “effort” is fine. Sometimes there is no choice but to fight. But when there is, I wouldn’t be forcing people to.
In an ideal world, I do not think that Ukraine would chose to ‘force’ people either as, like I said, it is never going to be a popular policy to implement.

It never has been, and it never will. But the situation arose from a genuine need at the time where at the beginning of the war Russia were on the charge.

Russia has a large pool of soldiers to choose from and in reality greater financial might to entice men and women to fight; the odds were against Ukraine.

Hence the necessity. Now, with the financial and human cost of the war alongside diminishing western support, there’s another growing shortage.
 
Required by generals, maybe. As one Ukrainian said in an article recently: “I would fight for freedom. I will not fight for a country that forces me to fight.”
They are fighting for the nations freedom, mate. If they don't Ukraine will be under the Kremlins boot and occupied by a barbaric force.

Its being widely reported what they are doing in raping women and children and executing men and women, whilst deporting thousands of Ukrainian children to "education" camps in Russia in an attempt to brainwash the poor little things into thinking that they are Russian and that Ukraine is evil. You can imagine the kinds of things they'll be going through there.

So if you're a Ukrainian adult, is that worth fighting for - I'd have to say most certainly.
 
They are fighting for the nations freedom, mate. If they don't Ukraine will be under the Kremlins boot and occupied by a barbaric force.

Its being widely reported what they are doing in raping women and children and executing men and women, whilst deporting thousands of Ukrainian children to "education" camps in Russia in an attempt to brainwash the poor little things into thinking that they are Russian and that Ukraine is evil. You can imagine the kinds of things they'll be going through there.

So if you're a Ukrainian adult, is that worth fighting for - I'd have to say most certainly.
So let the Ukrainian adults choose. That’s true freedom.

Or are we afraid of the answers…

This is not an easy situation. But I think it’s legitimate for some people to say “no, I won’t fight, but I will support the effort in whatever way I can.”
 
Zelensky about to lower the age of conscription from 27 to 25 breaking the promise made that he wouldn't.

There's loads of those younger men who have fled though and won't return. Possible extradition of them from neighbouring countries won't go down well.
Yep, it's horrific that people are having to defend their families and homeland from a murderous tyrant, they should roll over and take it.
 
So let the Ukrainian adults choose. That’s true freedom.

Or are we afraid of the answers…

This is not an easy situation. But I think it’s legitimate for some people to say “no, I won’t fight, but I will support the effort in whatever way I can.”
Some people might be inclined to take and enjoy the benefits of freedoms in the good times, and there might indeed be those sorts of fairweather friends that nobody needs or wants.

You'd hope that those sorts would be in the minority.
 
Yep, it's horrific that people are having to defend their families and homeland from a murderous tyrant, they should roll over and take it.
Fighting for a corrupt clown like Zelensky and his oligarch masters. No chance. I don't blame any lad over there heading straight to the border and never returning until this war is over.
 
So let the Ukrainian adults choose. That’s true freedom.

Or are we afraid of the answers…

This is not an easy situation. But I think it’s legitimate for some people to say “no, I won’t fight, but I will support the effort in whatever way I can.”
Not to sound obtuse, but this is slightly pie in the sky thinking. If we took that logic, you could ask why we need laws that people must wear seat belts.

You could ask why we have other rules, regulation and laws. Sometimes, the needs of the many (or the greater good) simply outweigh individual whims.
 
Fighting for a corrupt clown like Zelensky and his oligarch masters. No chance. I don't blame any lad over there heading straight to the border and never returning until this war is over.
I'd fight for my family and pets and land, not for the government. I don't blame anyone running away either, but it depends what you care about and need to defend.
 
I'd fight for my family and pets and land, not for the government. I don't blame anyone running away either, but it depends what you care about and need to defend.
The regime is a cesspit. I'd never fight for anyone like Zelensky leading a government and making decisions that could get me killed. They've already sent near 200,000 to their deaths.
 
Fighting for a corrupt clown like Zelensky and his oligarch masters. No chance. I don't blame any lad over there heading straight to the border and never returning until this war is over.

If it was good enough for the Russian lads then fair enough….
 
Not to sound obtuse, but this is slightly pie in the sky thinking. If we took that logic, you could ask why we need laws that people must wear seat belts.

You could ask why we have other rules, regulation and laws. Sometimes, the needs of the many (or the greater good) simply outweigh individual whims.
Being forced to fight for a political cause one may not believe in - and likely die for - is rather more fundamental than being forced to wear a seat belt. It’s not a mere “whim” to want to avoid the meat grinder.

One might legitimately argue that “the greater good” for Ukraine would have been better served by taking a far more delicate stance vis-a-vis western orientation than the one Zelenskyy and his government took given the head-banger next door. It was obvious he was up against it as it was never clear - and it still isn’t - that he would get the western backing he needed to make his approach a good one. It was also not clear if he could take the east of the country with him on that path. If they get thrown under the bus by Trump next year, it will have been a disastrous miscalculation, no matter the legitimate aspiration to track his own course.

Anyway, we won’t agree on this. Rather than throwing more scared, unwilling Ukrainians into a pointless losing cause, the west needs to get serious and support the Ukrainians definitively so that they can at least justify the inevitable human losses with an overall victory. Right now, this is headed into disaster territory with Trump on the horizon and the EU incapable of rising to the challenge.
 
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