Current Affairs Ukraine

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Spadge Vernacular said:
The idea that "Crimea is Russian" has gained traction in Europe as a result of a group of primarily right-wing populist groups and leaders with close ties to, and funding from Putin/the Kremlin. German AfD, might agree with Putin that the invasion of Crimea was a result of the expression of genuine public will. Their representatives have frequently visited Crimea during Putin’s power grab in Russia to stir things. You also have Marine Le Pen spouting the mantra that Crimea was always Russian, Previous deputy prime minister of Italy, Matteo Salvini, used similar language when he said that the 2014 vote was legitimate and that there are some traditionally Russian zones with Russian culture and language. Using that line of thinking would suggest that England has a legitimate claim on the US, Canada, Australia et al. It is lazy jingoistic claptrap.
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Which is to ignore what the wishes of the occupants of the territory actually were (and are). What useful idiots over here say is irrelevant; what Putin says is irrelevant. The people there repeatedly indicated what the wish of the majority was.

Putin's invasion was criminal, and did kick off all this horror, but that doesn't change the facts of how Crimea became a part of Ukraine.
 
tsubaki said:
Which is to ignore what the wishes of the occupants of the territory actually were (and are). What useful idiots over here say is irrelevant; what Putin says is irrelevant. The people there repeatedly indicated what the wish of the majority was.

Putin's invasion was criminal, and did kick off all this horror, but that doesn't change the facts of how Crimea became a part of Ukraine.
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100% agree. If you dig deeper beneath the Ukranian rhetoric then I would assume that even the most fervent Ukranian nationalist would concede that the majority of people living in Crimea wish to be Russian. To try and subjugate those people into Ukranian society would be wrong and in fact simply mirror the actions of Putin.

It’s just not a reality for Ukraine to conquer Crimea - however a more likely scenario is that Ukraine can isolate Crimea from Russian supply they can then negotiate terms, repopulation and acceptance of the tartar people - respect for and education in the Ukranian language and culture alongside Russian should be proposed.

However what Ukraine will not and should not concede is the land bridge from Russia to Crimea - these lands are Ukranian and must be returned to Ukraine and I include in this the cities of Mariupol and Berdyansk.
 
tsubaki said:
Which is to ignore what the wishes of the occupants of the territory actually were (and are). What useful idiots over here say is irrelevant; what Putin says is irrelevant. The people there repeatedly indicated what the wish of the majority was.

Putin's invasion was criminal, and did kick off all this horror, but that doesn't change the facts of how Crimea became a part of Ukraine.
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Poland will itself extend a ban on Ukrainian grains into Poland from midnight, the prime minister said on Friday, after the European Union said it would not extend a ban it had imposed.

“We will extend this ban despite their disagreement, despite the European Commission’s disagreement,” Mateusz Morawiecki told a rally in the northeastern town of Elk.

“We will do it because it is in the interest of the Polish farmer.”
 
tsubaki said:
Which is to ignore what the wishes of the occupants of the territory actually were (and are). What useful idiots over here say is irrelevant; what Putin says is irrelevant. The people there repeatedly indicated what the wish of the majority was.

Putin's invasion was criminal, and did kick off all this horror, but that doesn't change the facts of how Crimea became a part of Ukraine.
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I'd treat the stats and findings coming out of the Kremlin as at best untrustworthy. The LSE study put up earlier however, is an example of findings that will be nearer to the truth and not the ramblings of 'useful idiots' such as those that following Putins comms strategy et al. Parroting right wing propogandists is dangerous.
 
Spadge Vernacular said:
I'd treat the stats and findings coming out of the Kremlin as at best untrustworthy. The LSE study put up earlier however, is an example of findings that will be nearer to the truth and not the ramblings of 'useful idiots' such as those that following Putins comms strategy et al. Parroting right wing propogandists is dangerous.
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These aren't stats from the Kremlin - they are every Ukrainian nationwide election between 1991 and 2014, the local Crimean elections and the three referendums held in the 90s.
 
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