Exactly
Current Affairs Ukraine
- Thread starter Mutzo Nutzo
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tsubaki
Player Valuation: £90m
You've left out "what the people of Crimea think".
As I said, what he did in 2014 was absolutely wrong - but if people think a country's claim to a given territory is beyond any doubt, when the territory in question was administratively transferred between two consitutent parts of the same country seventy years ago by someone without asking the population of that territory (many of whom had been expelled and murdered by his predecessor), and in order for his own personal political ends / to avoid criticism for his role in the murders of millions of Ukrainians then I really think they should examine their understanding of "beyond any doubt".
The plan has been failry obvious for about 7 or 8 weeks or more now, quite why people cling to the "counter offensive has failed" line is so odd.
Its pretty clear Ukraine have been trying to destroy and degrade Russian means of fire and then cut off any means of supply when they get in range.
The commando raid on the oil platforms must have been months in planning. They destroyed 25% of Russia's black sea sub fleet this week so thats a 25% reduction in their ability to launch sub-based cruise missiles from the Crimean penininsula into Ukraine. It most likely wont be the last.
Russia cant increase their black sea fleet without violating an agreement with Turkey.
Fair enough. Imo 70 years is long enough to be determined as Ukraine. It may be unfortunate for the Russians living there but that’s what it is.
What about the Donbas? Genuine question
Spadge Vernacular
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The Crimean Tatars? Or the Russian ex pats that Russia boated in?
Yeh, I guess it’s no secret
In two or three different waves spanning decades (also bussing Ukrainians out)
Spadge Vernacular
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LSE did some research regarding the Russian claims on Crimea.
www.lse.ac.uk
Were Crimeans really pro-Russian before annexation?
Eleanor Knott’s new book "Kin Majorities" explores issues of identity and citizenship in Crimea before annexation by Russia.
www.lse.ac.uk
Spadge Vernacular
Player Valuation: £70m
As pointed to Ratsputin, the logic that seeding an area entiltes one country to take lands for another means that China will have a valid claim to Eastern Russia within 20 years.
tsubaki
Player Valuation: £90m
The Tatars especially have to be allowed to return, but the majority of that population was (even before the first of the Soviet expulsions) Russian and they have pretty consistently since 1991 expressed their desire to either not be a part of Ukraine or to be represented by Russian-leaning political parties.
tsubaki
Player Valuation: £90m
China has a claim (whether valid or not) to the Russian Far East though, given that it was formerly Chinese territory seized during the 19th century.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
Lukashenko proposes 'three-way cooperation' with Russia and North Korea
Russian president Vladimir Putin hosted a meeting on Friday with his Belarusian ally, who suggested that Minsk could could join Moscow’s efforts to revive an old alliance with North Korea after this week’s summit with Kim Jong-un.Alexander Lukashenko, the Belarusian president, made the proposal as he met Putin in the Black Sea resort of Sochi, where the Russian leader said he would brief him about the talks with Kim on Wednesday at the Vostochny spaceport in Russia’s far east, Reuters reported.
“I would like to inform you about the discussion on the situation in the region, which was quite important, and also to touch on the most acute issue, the situation in Ukraine,” Putin said at the start of the meeting.
Lukashenko responded by saying that “we could think about three-way cooperation,” adding that “I think a bit of work could be found for Belarus to do there as well”.
Spadge Vernacular
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Shocking that we are seeing WWI type destruction of civilian areas. Flanders should have been a lesson for all.
Spadge Vernacular
Player Valuation: £70m
The idea that "Crimea is Russian" has gained traction in Europe as a result of a group of primarily right-wing populist groups and leaders with close ties to, and funding from Putin/the Kremlin. German AfD, might agree with Putin that the invasion of Crimea was a result of the expression of genuine public will. Their representatives have frequently visited Crimea during Putin’s power grab in Russia to stir things. You also have Marine Le Pen spouting the mantra that Crimea was always Russian, Previous deputy prime minister of Italy, Matteo Salvini, used similar language when he said that the 2014 vote was legitimate and that there are some traditionally Russian zones with Russian culture and language. Using that line of thinking would suggest that England has a legitimate claim on the US, Canada, Australia et al. It is lazy jingoistic claptrap.
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