Current Affairs Ukraine

[Prevenger17]

and they want it to go on and on just so they can be seen to appear 'right' on the internet.

We want Ukraine to do whatever Ukraine thinks is the right thing for itself. If they negotiate a peace, great. If they want to continue to fight the country that invaded it and is killing its citizens (not for the first time), then we support that too.

Russia invaded them Dave, it's genuinely hard to tell whether you understand that

 

[Rita_Poon]

Anyway, just my tuppence-worth.

Your change sir...

 

[Prevenger17]

In my opinion he's doing nothing but hold up a mirror to the majority of posters on here who will continue to support the continuation of the war - a war that's going to grind on until someone or some force steps in to call a halt to the carnage.

Shut up Dave. Kev is a bellend who openly revelled in the death of Ukrainian children and delighted in telling everyone that Russia would steamroll them in a week and conquer a sovereign country. This may be the worst angle you have ever taken on anything, and it has incredibly stiff competition

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

FWIW, just on @Kev The Rat : the stick he gets on this thread is pretty poor, tbh.

In my opinion he's doing nothing but hold up a mirror to the majority of posters on here who will continue to support the continuation of the war - a war that's going to grind on until someone or some force steps in to call a halt to the carnage.

If his posts were anything other than consistent and principled then the mods would have had him off this thread a long time a go. We can all disagree with his preferred resolution to this conflict without canvassing for his removal. That's just censorship, the type of thing that all those who oppose Kev are saying is a feature of the Russian regime they decry. Maybe argue your own case a little more rationally to counter him.

Anyway, just my tuppence-worth.

 

[davek]

We want Ukraine to do whatever Ukraine thinks is the right thing for itself. If they negotiate a peace, great. If they want to continue to fight the country that invaded it and is killing its citizens (not for the first time), then we support that too.

Russia invaded them Dave, it's genuinely hard to tell whether you understand that

I know they did. And they need to get out. However the reality is they are a military super power and wont be leaving. So what's the path forward...more young men fed into the giant meatgrinder so Zelensky can remain in power waltzing round the world in his comical khaki fatigue gear never having raised a fist to the Russians?

Imagine being a Ukrainian whose sacrificed a child on the alter of that clown's ego.

There has to be negotiation and a massive reconstruction for that country. To get there Zelensky will have to be removed from office by the people. Maybe the upcoming elections will be the beginning of the end for him.

 

[davek]

Shut up Dave. Kev is a bellend who openly revelled in the death of Ukrainian children and delighted in telling everyone that Russia would steamroll them in a week and conquer a sovereign country. This may be the worst angle you have ever taken on anything, and it has incredibly stiff competition

If that were the case his feet wouldn't have touched on here.

 

[Prevenger17]

I know they did. And they need to get out. However the reality is they are a military super power and wont be leaving. So what's the path forward...more young men fed into the giant meatgrinder so Zelensky can remain in power waltzing round the world in his comical khaki fatigue gear never having raised a fist to the Russians?

Imagine being a Ukrainian whose sacrificed a child on the alter of that clown's ego.

There has to be negotiation and a massive reconstruction for that country. To get there Zelensky will have to be removed from office by the people. Maybe the upcoming elections will be the beginning of the end for him.

Again, you seem to place all the responsibility at the door of Zelensky and none at the door of the utter goblin in the Kremlin. Russia invaded them, and they are defending themselves because Russia will just do it all over again in a few years.

You're not Ukrainian, so you don't understand what it's like to have an existential threat to your country that won't stop coming for you living right at your back door. So stop posting wham pls thnks

 

[Tipp blue]

I constantly will the Russian war machine to go home and for the Ukrainians to be rid of their corrupt government.

Others seem to want this conflict (already accounting for circa 200,000 lives and about 1 million casualties total) to carry on...from the comfort of sitting behind their computer screens. Real people get killed and maimed...and they want it to go on and on just so they can be seen to appear 'right' on the internet.

My conscience is clear. Examine your own.

The conflict must carry on, until a time that Russia leaves ukraine.. appeasement has never worked and there is absolutely nothing to suggest that it will work now, Putin has repeatedly annexed lands from other countries since he came to power and he was appeased through lack support for these countries and look how it's ended up now, he assumed that he could steamroll Ukraine and they'd get no help because he'd gotten away with it before.

 

[Kev The Rat]

FWIW, just on @Kev The Rat : the stick he gets on this thread is pretty poor, tbh.

In my opinion he's doing nothing but hold up a mirror to the majority of posters on here who will continue to support the continuation of the war - a war that's going to grind on until someone or some force steps in to call a halt to the carnage.

If his posts were anything other than consistent and principled then the mods would have had him off this thread a long time a go. We can all disagree with his preferred resolution to this conflict without canvassing for his removal. That's just censorship, the type of thing that all those who oppose Kev are saying is a feature of the Russian regime they decry. Maybe argue your own case a little more rationally to counter him.

Anyway, just my tuppence-worth.

I do hold a somewhat different view to you in that I believe Russia has perfectly justifiable reasons for prosecuting this war (which I don’t think you do correct me if I’m wrong?) and to see it to it’s logical conclusion whatever that may be. Either Ukro surrender or some kind of peace deal acceptable to the Russian Federation.

But where we do have no dispute is around the shamefully cynically opportunistic position of the west coupled with the grift of Zelenski and his stooges.

My fear is that the west AND Zelenski are maniacs who will not be diverted from their joint destruction

 

[Kev The Rat]

If that were the case his feet wouldn't have touched on here.

No one here revels in the death of any children.

Even those types of comments are bandied about as a means of tarnishing views that don’t fit in with the continuation of western hegemony

 

[davek]

Again, you seem to place all the responsibility at the door of Zelensky and none at the door of the utter goblin in the Kremlin. Russia invaded them, and they are defending themselves because Russia will just do it all over again in a few years.

You're not Ukrainian, so you don't understand what it's like to have an existential threat to your country that won't stop coming for you living right at your back door. So stop posting wham pls thnks

Look, all I'm saying is that this conflict is not going the way that most want it to. In that case there has to be 1/ a recognition of that and 2/ a formula that sets in motion the beginning of the end of conflict and peace itself based on the best terms the Ukrainians can get.

Kev takes the view that the Russians will need a comprehensive victory for peace to be called from their end of it. I disagree. I think a peace deal guaranteed by the west which allows Russia their land corridor to Crimea and a promise that NATO is off the table can get the Russians agreement. Then Ukraine can win the peace by getting billions reconstruction cash and eventually entering western institutions like the EU and become part of a trading family.

The border between Russia and Ukraine has been re-written and that's the realpolitik of all this. It shouldn't be that way but it is.

 

[Rita_Poon]

I know they did. And they need to get out. However the reality is they are a military super power and wont be leaving. So what's the path forward...more young men fed into the giant meatgrinder so Zelensky can remain in power waltzing round the world in his comical khaki fatigue gear never having raised a fist to the Russians?

churchill with FDR in the US, December 1941.

 

[davek]

No one here revels in the death of any children.

Even those types of comments are bandied about as a means of tarnishing views that don’t fit in with the continuation of western hegemony

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

TBF that is a very great distortion of what that pact represented, as well as subsequent history in WW2.

Stalin correctly recognized that at some point he (the USSR) would be on the Nazi menu and, after Munich and the seizure of the rest of Czechoslovakia, seriously tried to negotiate a military alliance with us and the French. We did not conduct those negotiations seriously, even though we'd given guarantees to most of the rest of Eastern Europe already, and one suspects they recognized that the guarantees were largely of the paper kind anyway (as they proved to be for the Poles). The Nazis were more serious about negotiating (even though all parties recognized the deals were temporary and a prelude to war) and bribed him with other people's land, to the great detriment of Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Finland, Romania and most of all Poland.

It was a shameful pact, bought at the cost of hundreds of thousands of innocent lives - but its hard to see what other option Stalin had at the time. Those two years and several hundred more miles probably allowed them to survive for long enough in 1941, and therefore helped them ultimately win the war on the Eastern Front.

Plus of course there is a very great danger in accusing others of collaborating with the Nazis when living themselves in such a giant house of glass.

Not like you to miss the point now is it lol

 

[COYBL25]

FWIW, just on @Kev The Rat : the stick he gets on this thread is pretty poor, tbh.

In my opinion he's doing nothing but hold up a mirror to the majority of posters on here who will continue to support the continuation of the war - a war that's going to grind on until someone or some force steps in to call a halt to the carnage.

If his posts were anything other than consistent and principled then the mods would have had him off this thread a long time a go. We can all disagree with his preferred resolution to this conflict without canvassing for his removal. That's just censorship, the type of thing that all those who oppose Kev are saying is a feature of the Russian regime they decry. Maybe argue your own case a little more rationally to counter him.

Anyway, just my tuppence-worth.

He was thread banned almost immediately when this thread opened, for his posting of vile and disgusting anti Ukrainian posts.

Pretty similar to what he’s doing now tbh.

The only difference being, is that he’s now learnt how to take his posts right up to the threshold of getting banned and then pulls back slightly, once it looks like he’s about to get banned again.

You’re supporting and aligning yourself with someone who’s posted some of the most vile, evil and disgusting stuff in the history of this fine forum comrade.