Current Affairs Ukraine

[FrenchDarrenBent]

That would be more appropriate, but even then it’s a bit of a provocation.

Security isn't a dirty word, Tsubaki, crevice is a dirty word, but security isnt.

 

[Leylo]

How dare they defend themselves, jesus wept kev

They're civilians they'll get slaughtered

 

[Terrarian]

They're civilians they'll get slaughtered

If they wish to defend their homeland they can, not your call mate.

 

[BlueTX]

A bit anecdotal but when I was in Cuba last month just chatting to locals and guides, they said things improved for them greatly when Obama was in charge with more money coming in and his visits legitimising them. When Trump got in everything stopped and the cruel attempts to starve them out started again, Biden got in and he has done or changed nothing at all from Trump, according to the locals I spoke to.

I haven't been too encouraged by his attitude towards international politics

Attitudes toward international politics are, most often, driven by national politics.

There's a very good case to be made Joe Biden lost Florida because of very successful GOP efforts within the immigrant Cuban and South American communities with messages about his being a socialist.

Also, when pushing for ambitious domestic programs that are being derailed by members of your own party, giving additional ammo to your domestic political foes isn't a particularly good idea.

 

[PhilM]

Why would it be seen as a direct threat tho? Just bcs it is their neighbour? They have other neighbours who are NATO members.

The relationship between Ukraine and Russia, the annexation of Crimea, the disputes in the Donbas and then a rushed membership.

If you're (Russia) claiming Ukraine is under your sphere and then NATO comes barrelling quickly, against all previous messages, you'd be incensed.

Russia (sorry Putin, the Kremlin and his cronies) has some messed up view of the security of the Russian state based on political, idelogical and historical views.

Is NATO a thread to Russia? No. Is NATO and the west a threat to Putin's grip on power? Yes.

 

[Leylo]

If they wish to defend their homeland they can, not your call mate.

Never said it was just think they will get slaughtered and won't stop them.

 

[Deleted member 48881]

The relationship between Ukraine and Russia, the annexation of Crimea, the disputes in the Donbas and then a rushed membership.

If you're (Russia) claiming Ukraine is under your sphere and then NATO comes barrelling quickly, against all previous messages, you'd be incensed.

Russia (sorry Putin, the Kremlin and his cronies) has some messed up view of the security of the Russian state based on political, idelogical and historical views.

Is NATO a thread to Russia? No. Is NATO and the west a threat to Putin's grip on power? Yes.

Would you say it would have been far better if Kyiv were admitted as a member before 2014? Possibly during Yushchenko's reign. And this occupation wouldn't have occured?

 

[spectateur]

Let's get it right here, the western leaders are hiding & cowering behind the non-membership by ukraine of NATO as the reason why we cannot do anything aside from rhetoric and sabre rattle meaningless worthless sanctions that will do nothing to deter mad Vlad and his bloodlust. Putin has played them like fiddles, and appeasement (which is what the west is doing) only ends one way.

it shouldn't have anything to do with money, membership of organisations or anything else - Ukraine is a sovereign country being invaded by an agressor and the country, its leaders and it's innocent people deserve our military assistance now. It's about right or wrong.

PUtin won't stop going with Ukraine imo - I don't think the NATO threat will hold him off after how pathetically weak the west's response has been. He wants the USSR/imererial Russia back to what it was, the absolute maniac.

Slava Ukraini!

Poutine has succomed to his paranoia according to Le Figaro.
He considers that the break up of the USSR was the biggest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century.
the one time KGB boss also said that Ukraine is illegitimate artificial and he denies its right to existence.

With that mindset he fears nobody in his obsession to restore the glories of the Soviet empire.
Very worrying.

 

[Terrarian]

Never said it was just think they will get slaughtered and won't stop them.

What's the alternative, do nothing then what happens?

 

[NathDogg]

Never said it was just think they will get slaughtered and won't stop them.

Don't blame them fighting for their country - sooner die on their feet than live on their knees.

 

[PhilM]

Would you say it would have been far better if Kyiv were admitted as a member before 2014? Possibly during Yushchenko's reign. And this occupation wouldn't have occured?

It would not have occurred. Russia has taken its time to amass its financial reserves and build up its military, which was for a long time in disarray.

But, and it's a big but, NATO and the EU set its stall out circa 2008 with the time-scale. We're short of that and arguably the situation has since declined.

While with hindsight it's easy to say 'Look, we should have let them in', there were reasons they weren't including genuine concerns about the political stability.

NATO cannot afford a country that collapses politically and comes out of the bloc. The easiest solution would have been to shackle Russia after Crimea.

That's the elephant in the room so to speak.

 

[Leylo]

What's the alternative, do nothing then what happens?

The same as if they do , they're a superpower the outcome wouldn't change , civilians getting slaughtered as well would be even sadder than it is now imo

 

[Walken]

Attitudes toward international politics are, most often, driven by national politics.

There's a very good case to be made Joe Biden lost Florida because of very successful GOP efforts within the immigrant Cuban and South American communities with messages about his being a socialist.

Also, when pushing for ambitious domestic programs that are being derailed by members of your own party, giving additional ammo to your domestic political foes isn't a particularly good idea.

Batistas grand kids in miami will always vote republican no matter what, I couldn't tell you on here what the locals (even anti party ones) think of republican voter cuban ex-pats in Miami who have influcted great pain willingly on their own people.

Foreign policy is always driven by domestic goals, right out the Bismarck handbook. But Biden has chose to do nothing to pander domestically, much like he is terrified of rising gas prices with the Ukraine conflict. The careerists will understand making these decisions, while the humanitarians will ask him to take some hurt and help

 

[Kev The Rat]

Never said it was just think they will get slaughtered and won't stop them.

and all to prop up a few Ukrainian politicians

 

[Tin-Tin]

Abramovich's daughter