Current Affairs Ukraine

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This is certainly the prevailing view amongst the media classes, but I am not sure that it is necessarily the best way of describing recent history.

The collapse of the USSR did leave a lot of Russian and pro-Russian people living in what were now independent states. In many cases (including Ukraine pre-2014) there were enough of them to ensure that the new country was friendly to Moscow, and where these populations weren't present geography (lack of access to elsewhere / Russia's size) meant that being friendly to Moscow was eminently sensible economically, strategically and politically. In that sense any Russian leadership, democratic or autocratic, would enjoy a natural sphere of influence and would react when it was threatened.

Where the risk for democracy is (including from Putin) is not that we are not willing to arm another country or even fight for it (lets face it we have done that repeatedly since the end of the first Cold War) the risk is that we are doing nothing to fix the problems in our societies - inequality, political corruption, governmental incompetence, waste - that are the weak points that the autocrats will go for. Does anyone think people in the developing world look at the likes of Trump, MTG, Johnson and the rest and think they are examples to follow? Are there any positive examples at the top level of Western politics at the moment?

Politics is a mess, agreed.

But here is the risk in us leaving a bully to do what he wants.

Grozny after Putins help for civilian areas 2000
FA17454E-7E11-48BF-8153-9955D579B1C0_cx0_cy2_cw0_w1023_r1_s.jpg

hCSsBA5.png




Evil civilians in Grozny in 1995
voyna_grozniy_21.jpg

1995-06-26T120000Z_1156697835_PBEAHUNCBBY_RTRMADP_3_CHECHNYA.jpg




Same in Georgia 2008
2008-08-09T120000Z_422191156_GF2E4890NGY01_RTRMADP_3_GEORGIA-OSSETIA-APARTMENT-1024x725.jpg

art.civilian.gori.gi.jpg




Syria 2015
_94897049_gettyimages-602347030.jpg

syria-civil-war-getty-462518530.jpg




Russias current liberatian of civilians in Ukraine

68044855-11788589-A_man_pushes_his_bike_through_debris_and_destroyed_Russian_milit-m-336_1677252294264.jpg

64070ab0934c2c001802d868


There is a subtle theme.
 
Politics is a mess, agreed.

But here is the risk in us leaving a bully to do what he wants.

Grozny after Putins help for civilian areas 2000
FA17454E-7E11-48BF-8153-9955D579B1C0_cx0_cy2_cw0_w1023_r1_s.jpg

hCSsBA5.png




Evil civilians in Grozny in 1995
voyna_grozniy_21.jpg

1995-06-26T120000Z_1156697835_PBEAHUNCBBY_RTRMADP_3_CHECHNYA.jpg




Same in Georgia 2008
2008-08-09T120000Z_422191156_GF2E4890NGY01_RTRMADP_3_GEORGIA-OSSETIA-APARTMENT-1024x725.jpg

art.civilian.gori.gi.jpg




Syria 2015
_94897049_gettyimages-602347030.jpg

syria-civil-war-getty-462518530.jpg




Russias current liberatian of civilians in Ukraine

68044855-11788589-A_man_pushes_his_bike_through_debris_and_destroyed_Russian_milit-m-336_1677252294264.jpg

64070ab0934c2c001802d868


There is a subtle theme.
putin is the hitler the west has invited by pretending he and his well oiled mafia are a great bunch of lads after all.

shambles!
 
Met an old friend for the first time in months last night and he's gone full edgy Putinbot. He was a bit of a "stay at home reading JANES and watching tank videos on YouTube" type but is now completely down the rabbithole.

Claiming Ukrainain government was bribed by the US to provoke an invasion of their own country, that Russia hasn't used any of it's good troops. yet and hasn't needed to because they've only had 17,000. casualties. A load of conspiracy stuff about the CIA... Moskva was never sunk etc etc. Really troubling to see.
 
Met an old friend for the first time in months last night and he's gone full edgy Putinbot. He was a bit of a "stay at home reading JANES and watching tank videos on YouTube" type but is now completely down the rabbithole.

Claiming Ukrainain government was bribed by the US to provoke an invasion of their own country, that Russia hasn't used any of it's good troops. yet and hasn't needed to because they've only had 17,000. casualties. A load of conspiracy stuff about the CIA... Moskva was never sunk etc etc. Really troubling to see.
Yikes!

Then again if you stir the muddiest parts of the lake, you make even the calmest parts unclear.
 
Yeah, depressing really. He was giving it all "you're a smart guy, I can't believe you can't see this!"

Cos it's all nonsense you absolute loon.
Have a colleague like that, blames it all on America and Russia "needed" to interfere.

Had to show/point out/explain some of the liberations @Spadge Vernacular also mentioned above, as well as a few others.

"They just want peace and freedom from American propaganda" though lol
 
Yeah, depressing really. He was giving it all "you're a smart guy, I can't believe you can't see this!"

Cos it's all nonsense you absolute loon.
I remember watching a few YouTube vids in the early internet conspiracy days and telling a mate I thought 9/11 was an inside job. He was like ‘are you [Poor language removed] stupid?’ I was like ‘oh yeah actually. That makes no sense’
 
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