Current Affairs Ukraine

[tsubaki]

It's not about "fighting for your country", it's about fighting for what's right. All of this navel gazing in this thread but we don't really give a toss as it doesn't directly affect us. Maybe if it did we'd be pushing our government to do more than impose meaningless sanctions while leaving Ukraine to its fate.

Ah, liberal interventionism. That great success of these past twenty years.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

That is you, though. It isn’t everyone else.

There is in no way I would stand up for the UK given its relationship with the money Putins chumocracy offers some. Knowing full well some of my countrymen have enriched and continue to enrich themselves while sending others of right, you must be joking...

 

[Nymzee]

As the president there says, they're fighting on their own. We only put our military to use when there is oil to be found.

If someone invaded us people would sign up to fight.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Ah, liberal interventionism. That great success of these past twenty years.

My own family are from Poland, my wife's from Czech, and both of these nations were in exactly Ukraine's shoes, being deserted by large western allies because it's not worth their while to do what's right. Maybe if Britain had been under the boot of someone bigger at a point in their history you'd feel better about needing help from elsewhere.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

If someone invaded us people would sign up to fight.

"I'm alright Jack"

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

There is in no way I would stand up for the UK given its relationship with the money Putins chumocracy offers some. Knowing full well some of my countrymen have enriched and continue to enrich themselves while sending others of right, you must be joking...

So because 1% of the UK elite are bad people you'd abandon the 99%?

 

[Death]

Ukrainians after retaking an airport. Poor fella on the left can see it all ahead of him. Brave lads though.

 

[PhilM]

There is in no way I would stand up for the UK given its relationship with the money Putins chumocracy offers some. Knowing full well some of my countrymen have enriched and continue to enrich themselves while sending others of right, you must be joking...

If the UK was directly threatened with invasion, you wouldn't fight? Most people in this country can't even comprehend the position their citizens are in.

It's not about "fighting for your country", it's about fighting for what's right. All of this navel gazing in this thread but we don't really give a toss as it doesn't directly affect us. Maybe if it did we'd be pushing our government to do more than impose meaningless sanctions while leaving Ukraine to its fate.

To the first point, I think it's a combination of both. They'll be fighting for Ukraine, which ultimately is what is right in this case.

To the second point, I agree and disagree. There'll be many for who it's the current event, but their outrage is tokenist in the sense of it'll be forgotten soon.

For others, there's a real drive to undertake meaningful actions to protect Ukraine and wider Europe. But, there's a realism of what can be done effectively.

 

[tsubaki]

My own family are from Poland, my wife's from Czech, and both of these nations were in exactly Ukraine's shoes, being deserted by large western allies because it's not worth their while to do what's right. Maybe if Britain had been under the boot of someone bigger at a point in their history you'd feel better about needing help from elsewhere.

We aren’t Ukraine’s allies though Bruce, that’s the point. If they attack the Baltics or Poland, or the Czech Republic then we absolutely should defend them.

Intervening militarily in Ukraine risks the sort of conflict that could destroy us all. It should not be done unless the risk to the rest of us is justified; I don’t think it is.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

All that stuff is probably a little less of a concern when your neighbour, who inflicted a famine on you in living memory and opressed you for decades is rolling tanks down the motorways, however. It's an existential struggle at that point.

Well Ukraine government is saying sanctions don't go far enough... They would know!

 

[daza_1973]

Thousands of young lives being thrown away by old men.

"History doesn't repeat itself, but often has a tendency to rhyme" , Mark Twain

 

[Lobster Johnson]

As the president there says, they're fighting on their own. We only put our military to use when there is oil to be found.

Not seeking direct conflict with a nuclear power threatening "consequences you have never experienced in your history" is perhaps sensible. Ukraine is probably knackered, sadly. That's the consequence of 20 years of turning a blind eye to Russian transgressions and not standing up to the thousand tiny escalations that have led us to this point... Now NATO/the EU/The west in general need to draw some new lines and come up with a new strategy.

 

[Lobster Johnson]

Well Ukraine government is saying sanctions don't go far enough... They would know!

I agree with this. That wasn't the point I was making.

Going all in with every sanction you can think of empties the option box for later, however.

 

[Death]

So because 1% of the UK elite are bad people you'd abandon the 99%?

99% and thats the shame. We have the power to overthrow the West's empire and Russia. But we are pawns in the 1%s game.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

My own family are from Poland, my wife's from Czech, and both of these nations were in exactly Ukraine's shoes, being deserted by large western allies because it's not worth their while to do what's right. Maybe if Britain had been under the boot of someone bigger at a point in their history you'd feel better about needing help from elsewhere.

There is an instinctive feeling that sitting back and watching this is just wrong but I'm not sure that a world war, at this point, is the answer. It may well come to this but hopefully this atrocity will focus the Russian peoples mind and they'll get their house in order. If not the former feels a bit closer. It is all incredibly sad.