Current Affairs Ukraine

[PhilM]

It seems pretty mental to me that we spend ungodly amounts of money on a military and aren’t ready to use it in any meaningful capacity. If the intelligence services are to be believed they knew this invasion was likely for months.

If you're talking about troops in sizeable numbers to fight a prepared and well-equipped foe like Russia, it usually takes months to prepare with support from allies.

We have very few combat ready battalions bar from the JRRF: you're talking about five to eight thousands combat ready troops who we can fly in right now.

But where would they go? If they went to Poland, we've have to then transport them across the border, but with what? That's where preparing transport comes in.

When you move on to our mechanised infantry or our tanks, the ones that are ready are in Estonia. So we either leave them or have to get the rest prepared?

They'll need getting combat ready, transporting (that'll take a while!) and then getting into Russia through Poland, which is never going to happen quick enough.

All our Type 45 destroyers and the new Carrier Strike Group are in Portsmouth, so they'd have to get ready to sail, move to the Med and then prepare.

We'd need to mobile the logistics corps and whatnot too. The latter bit is the important bit - they probably did know, but we didn't want to escalate.

The US and EU are reluctant to act too, look at their poo-pooing of the SWIFT proposal.

 

[tsubaki]

That’s the definition of “I’m alright jack” to be fair. Straight out of the Tory playbook, the same kind of logic they use to cut benefits and leave the poor high and dry.

Shame if that’s the view.

No it isn’t, clearly.

 

[Lobster Johnson]

So we leave Ukraine to get squashed by a bully because we're scared. Go us.

There's no good answer here, is there?

 

[coollino]

 

[Cool_Blue]

I swear some of the news presenters / journo’s would love to be shot live on air..

Absolutely no need for Mark Austin etc to be presenting Live from Kiev.

Clive Myrhie has gone all in, he’s now pronouncing Kiev Keeve, which for all I know is correct, but Keeve is a new one on me.

 

[tsubaki]

Was typing specifically talking about the sanctions they are simply are not enough in the reach or scope and its Ukraine government stating this. Putin chumocracy money is more important to us than Ukrainians sovereignty, let's just have some honesty.

Cutting off that money has to be the focus now, more important even than sanctions.

 

[Death]

 

[PhilM]

Clive Myrhie has gone all in, he’s now pronouncing Kiev Keeve, which for all I know is correct, but Keeve is a new one on me.

It is Keeiv - spelt Kyiv too.

 

[summerisle]

Soon be over.

 

[PhilM]

So we leave Ukraine to get squashed by a bully because we're scared. Go us.

It's not about being scared, well not entirely.

Ukraine has been left to its own devices, which what you're saying is right and it's wrong, but the reasoning isn't that simplistic. It's all part of a tiered approach.

This outcomes has came about because of a multitude of reasons: lack of action in 2014; the choice to not protect a non-NATO state.

 

[Brennan]

If you're talking about troops in sizeable numbers to fight a prepared and well-equipped foe like Russia, it usually takes months to prepare with support from allies.

We have very few combat ready battalions bar from the JRRF: you're talking about five to eight thousands combat ready troops who we can fly in right now.

But where would they go? If they went to Poland, we've have to then transport them across the border, but with what? That's where preparing transport comes in.

When you move on to our mechanised infantry or our tanks, the ones that are ready are in Estonia. So we either leave them or have to get the rest prepared?

They'll need getting combat ready, transporting (that'll take a while!) and then getting into Russia through Poland, which is never going to happen quick enough.

All our Type 45 destroyers and the new Carrier Strike Group are in Portsmouth, so they'd have to get ready to sail, move to the Med and then prepare.

We'd need to mobile the logistics corps and whatnot too. The latter bit is the important bit - they probably did know, but we didn't want to escalate.

The US and EU are reluctant to act too, look at their poo-pooing of the SWIFT proposal.

All of which I'm sure is true, but that's not really the point. I'm not concerned with whether or not it isn't practical.

We should not be in a situation where we spend hundreds of billions of pounds of the people's money (across the EU) on defense and are unable to involve ourselves in the defense of a sovereign nation of 40 million people who neighbour EU/NATO member states.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Cutting off that money has to be the focus now, more important even than sanctions.

The UK could be outlier here, putting many countries to shame, The world knows the UK shores are the single biggest beneficiary of Putin's and regime money, and yet we duck and dive and point fingers. Insipid!

 

[Toast]

Soon be over.

Send her and Phil Fodens mum over to Moscow.

Be done by lunchtime then.

 

[PhilM]

All of which I'm sure is true, but that's not really the point. I'm not concerned with whether or not it isn't practical.

We should not be in a situation where we spend hundreds of billions of pounds of the people's money (across the EU) on defense and are unable to involve ourselves in the defense of a sovereign nation of 40 million people who neighbour EU/NATO member states.

That's the nature of military. Only a small fraction of forces are ever combat ready; the rest are a different levels of readiness with training, refitting etc.

But your point isn't wrong. We could have had enough assets ready as NATO/EU to be ready, but for reasons that we've discussed it wasn't chosen.

Some of it may be cost. Most of it will be to lack of political might, I suspect. There's no many in NATO apart from US, UK and France who get their hands dirty.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

For people who want to send in British armed forces, would you be happy to go to fight in Ukraine? If not, why should we let young British men die in a war again?

No I wouldn't be happy to fight in Ukraine

But I'm not a soldier either

Not to sound callous, but those young British men (and women) have chosen that career and have chosen it knowing the risks it brings with it

If you join the army and don't expect to ever fight in a war then you shouldn't be in the army

No one is talking about conscription for this. Yet

I don't want anyone to die in an armed conflict. I'd like to avoid it at all costs. But Ukraine is as worthy a cause as anything else in which to lose your life if you have dedicated yourself to a profession where death is a possibility