Current Affairs Ukraine

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stipe said:
Spare parts and ammo coming from German manufactures, you can't just send military equipment in isolation.

Not to mention contract and possibility for future sales, not just military, German companies got big sway in Polish economy, basically cheap labor for German firms all over Eastern Europe.

Poland used it for PR (and for internal politics by ruling PIS party), but i utterly doubt they gonna do anything without German consent.
Germany is EU, thats exactly how are they seen here.

Also as comment above says, nobody wants to see their precious toys destroyed, just look at Saudi and Iraqi Abrams popped by Houthis and ISIL (though i read Ukrainian military love German Gepard AA tanks, apparently they top their wishlist)
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Trust me I do understand the mechanics of arms sales. However I also understand that German industry will not give up future sales of main units or spares just because the current Chancellor is weak and pathetic. If Poland or any other EU country sent German equipment to Ukraine without permission Germany would be politically positioned between a rock and a hard place, with its profitable industries having a few words with the government……
 
peteblue said:
Trust me I do understand the mechanics of arms sales. However I also understand that German industry will not give up future sales of main units or spares just because the current Chancellor is weak and pathetic. If Poland or any other EU country sent German equipment to Ukraine without permission Germany would be politically positioned between a rock and a hard place, with its profitable industries having a few words with the government……
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Contract is still important, thats why it exists in first place, especially for future business.

Anyway, i think this is all diplomatic posturing and is already decided to send tanks (tomorrow is meeting at Ramstein). Its just some taking PR points and Germany wants to pretend about being forced and "reluctant".

They probably aim to establish economic relations with Russia after this is over (always pragmatic), and second reason is historical guilt and 30 million dead Russian/Soviets 80 years ago. Even today in German Parliament some MP was going about Russian blood on German hands and Germans tanks in Russia in 1940s (its also used as convenient excuse)
 
Good lads….

“ Poland on Thursday signalled it could send the heavy armour without German approval, with Mateusz Marwicki, its prime minister, saying Warsaw would “either get [permission] quickly, or do what we see fit”.

Mr Marwicki said he was “sceptical” that Berlin would approve the transfer of Leopard IIs because “the Germans are defending themselves against this like a devil protects himself against holy water”.
 
peteblue said:
Good lads….

“ Poland on Thursday signalled it could send the heavy armour without German approval, with Mateusz Marwicki, its prime minister, saying Warsaw would “either get [permission] quickly, or do what we see fit”.

Mr Marwicki said he was “sceptical” that Berlin would approve the transfer of Leopard IIs because “the Germans are defending themselves against this like a devil protects himself against holy water”.
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Which version of Leopards Poland have? I know Germany got rid of more than 2000 of them very cheaply at the end of Cold war (to Turkey, Poland, Netherlands, Canada, Finland etc....)

2A7 be would most modern version, but i believe only Germany operate those.
 
Seems Germans still diddling about tanks approval.

Also according to Spiegel, German Intelligence (plus some others) gave secret report to German government which says Ukrainian army suffering heavy losses in Bakhmut, apparently in three-digit numbers every day. I guess maybe trying to entice them to hurry up with tanks.
 
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