Current Affairs Ukraine

[Lobster Johnson]

Yup because the UN says it has the right but then gives countries powers to block that right being expressed legally. Which is ultimately why it's a toothless organisation for over twenty years or more mate

Do you support a legally enforced right to self determination?

 

[WA Toffee]

Taiwan is a very very big mess in waiting, the best solution I can see would be one where they are part of China but are allowed a large degree of autonomy from the mainland (legally it is Chinese territory). Think the more forward thinking amongst the Chinese upper echelon have that mindset, now if that's acceptable to the current rulers in Taiwan or its external supporters is a whole other matter.

China are different to Russia in terms of they are a manufacturing export based economy reliant on import of raw commodities hugely, a full blown military conflict would devastate their own economy (wouldn't do the west's much good either tbf)


Personal hope, is that it maintains as it is rather than deteriorate until the White House has someone whose able to sit down and talk things over with the Chinese as current policy just is throwing fuel onto a fire.

Not sure it is legally part of China? Or that the Chinese leaders are happy with the status quo. They pretended that was the case with Hong Kong too, hasn't really worked out that way though.

I agree that it could get very messy if China plays its hand though - can't see any good outcome for anyone if that happens.

 

[Tree13]

In international politics mate, it kinda does though. Should it do, no, but the reality is it has always worked that way.

Until there is some way it doesn't work that way, then any problem has to recognize that reality to come to any solution.

Using that same model of pragmatism to the exclusion of morality (I say that descriptively, not as a judgement of your personal morals) what's the realistic conclusion of the Israel & Palestine issue if the same principles are applied?

 

[bluestevon]

Yeah bit of a time difference for you, sorry!

I'd be interested in hearing your take when you've had a chance to watch the video.

Does Novorussiya encompass MORE than just the stretch of Ukraine from Donbass to Crimea currently occupied by Russian troops? It's not a term I'm familiar with.

Yeah mate it goes to Odessa on the black sea and Kharkov in the North.

 

[Tree13]

Do you support a legally enforced right to self determination?

In @bluestevon 's defence, I don't think his comments imply he's against a legally enforced right of self-determination. He's pointing out the flaws in the system that prevent the current structure from enforcing that legal right to self-determination.

 

[Tree13]

Yeah mate it goes to Odessa on the black sea and Kharkov in the North.

Thank goodness the modern day population in that area is all Jewish Gay Satanic Nazis, otherwise Putin would have quite some difficulty in hiding his plans to seize territory!

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Taiwan is a very very big mess in waiting, the best solution I can see would be one where they are part of China but are allowed a large degree of autonomy from the mainland (legally it is Chinese territory). Think the more forward thinking amongst the Chinese upper echelon have that mindset, now if that's acceptable to the current rulers in Taiwan or its external supporters is a whole other matter.

China are different to Russia in terms of they are a manufacturing export based economy reliant on import of raw commodities hugely, a full blown military conflict would devastate their own economy (wouldn't do the west's much good either tbf)


Personal hope, is that it maintains as it is rather than deteriorate until the White House has someone whose able to sit down and talk things over with the Chinese as current policy just is throwing fuel onto a fire.

Not sure about that. Massive grey area. If you look back then the rightful owner of Taiwan was the Qing Dynasty. They then ceded Taiwan to Japan. The ROC / PRC didn’t even exist at that time.

I think also when Japan surrendered to the US they ceded territory - but I’m not sure if Taiwan was part of that.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Regarding Taiwan, the question (and answer to the question) is who it belonged to pre 1945. I do not haave time to look but, that is when the current "Taiwanese" located there as democrats (effectively) fleeing communists in the civil war.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

In international politics mate, it kinda does though. Should it do, no, but the reality is it has always worked that way.

Until there is some way it doesn't work that way, then any problem has to recognize that reality to come to any solution.

Handy you live in Russia mate given your extreme right wing views are at odds with 80% of the UK population and probably 95% of Evertonians.

 

[bluestevon]

Do you support a legally enforced right to self determination?

Wholeheartedly mate, and it has to be done in a way shown to be free of any overdue outside influence.

Its why I've said the invasion was wrong repeatedly. The referendums in the four regions meaningless ultimately in terms of giving the people a free choice.

Regardless of provocation that I said is genuine, it was still wrong.

I'll go back further though, Ukraine had several pro Russians governments in periods since 1990, it was during those moments it should have pushed the self determination agenda on the international community, let it be done fairly, let the results be underwritten by the various bodies. My guess is if they had done Crimea and a large part of the east may indeed have voted to be semi autonomous or even fully independent.

But Russia didn't do that as they had the upper hand in the country at the time able to direct it's will, it's only when it went tits up after the overthrow in 2014 that they suddenly pushed the right to self determine as a goal, which is disingenuous

Ultimately people seen by many here as Russian cousins had instead 8 years of being bombed to bits by their own kin, then had the Russians go through the same areas causing untold carnage and undoubted atrocities, now have the Ukrainians going back through and will be suffering reprisals for collaboration

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

The conscripts aren't happy

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Shocking footage here!

 

[bluestevon]

Using that same model of pragmatism to the exclusion of morality (I say that descriptively, not as a judgement of your personal morals) what's the realistic conclusion of the Israel & Palestine issue if the same principles are applied?

Thing is I'm pretty emotional about stuff I can effect mate, I'm pretty much the opposite when I know I can't effect it, think it's the only way to stay sane in this world.

probably why realism is something I listen to a lot, it's accepting the world for how it is not how you wish it would be and coming to decisions and policy based on that.

israel - Palestine is for me the greatest tragedy since 45 mate, what makes it the most tragic is it involves the one people who most should understand the Palestinian side but are the ones doing it to them.

But so much bad blood due to the attrocities done by both that I don't know if there is currently any realistic solution to that in my lifetime.

Best hope I think is a reduction and easing over time until such a point that genuine talks can be held

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

I thought they were in Ukraine to stop the Nazis, not “the gays”.

There is a hierarchy of horrors.

First are the Nazi's
Then gays and satanists
Super priority at all times are Gay nazi satanists and the general population

 

[bluestevon]

Handy you live in Russia mate given your extreme right wing views are at odds with 80% of the UK population and probably 95% of Evertonians.

I'm actually closer to communist then centre you utter whopper.