Current Affairs Ukraine

[bluestevon]

As for Elon Musk here, I personally dont think hes very dishonest(for a billionaire), I think its just few people understand his true motives and hes partially delusional in his actual motivates IMHO. His sudden involvement in sovereign affairs seems bizarre and foolhardy until you really think about it.

Musk doesnt care about money, which most people cant get past and assume he must be because hes a billionaire. Hes motivated by one main thing, making earth interplanetary to "save the species". He was obsessed with sci-fi as a kid, and that has heavily influenced his thinking, and his goal as he sees it is to buy time for earth, and start colonizing other planets. Whether hes crazy with that is a separate discussion. But Tesla is his bid to both extend the lifespan on earth and make enough money to fund Mars rockets. Its also why he talks about underpopulation and pushes those. Spacex is his bid to make humans interplanetary. However there arent enough rocket launches to make enough money to fund that. Starlink was then born to both get more launches and experience for the rockets but also make the money SpaceX cant make to fund the Mars venture.

And that brings us to Musk getting involved with bad advice when it comes to sovereignty. He feels hes making good progress on all fronts. But the one thing that keeps humans from going interplanetary is a nuclear war that destroys the planet and thats what hes terrified of right now. Its what he cant control, what he sees looming, and hes desperate to stop it. While he does have a sense of right and wrong Russians seem to strangely lack, as far as he sees it any peace at any terms is far preferably to the moment a nuke launches. Its too soon. He was supposed to make humans interplanetary BEFORE this happened to save the species. Thats why he proposed and desperately hopes for a terrible "peace".

Pretty good analysis of him tbh.

Musk to me comes across from a distance as an exceptionally highly functioning autistic person, seems to be insanely driven but in a very restricted area and also seems to be very emotionally detached on the whole and sees things from a perspective that's at times hard to identify with.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Taiwan is a very very big mess in waiting, the best solution I can see would be one where they are part of China but are allowed a large degree of autonomy from the mainland (legally it is Chinese territory). Think the more forward thinking amongst the Chinese upper echelon have that mindset, now if that's acceptable to the current rulers in Taiwan or its external supporters is a whole other matter.

China are different to Russia in terms of they are a manufacturing export based economy reliant on import of raw commodities hugely, a full blown military conflict would devastate their own economy (wouldn't do the west's much good either tbf)


Personal hope, is that it maintains as it is rather than deteriorate until the White House has someone whose able to sit down and talk things over with the Chinese as current policy just is throwing fuel onto a fire.

You’ve not seen what they did to honk kong have you?

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

As for Elon Musk here, I personally dont think hes very dishonest(for a billionaire), I think its just few people understand his true motives and hes partially delusional in his actual motivates IMHO. His sudden involvement in sovereign affairs seems bizarre and foolhardy until you really think about it.

Musk doesnt care about money, which most people cant get past and assume he must be because hes a billionaire. Hes motivated by one main thing, making earth interplanetary to "save the species". He was obsessed with sci-fi as a kid, and that has heavily influenced his thinking, and his goal as he sees it is to buy time for earth, and start colonizing other planets. Whether hes crazy with that is a separate discussion. But Tesla is his bid to both extend the lifespan on earth and make enough money to fund Mars rockets. Its also why he talks about underpopulation and pushes those. Spacex is his bid to make humans interplanetary. However there arent enough rocket launches to make enough money to fund that. Starlink was then born to both get more launches and experience for the rockets but also make the money SpaceX cant make to fund the Mars venture.

And that brings us to Musk getting involved with bad advice when it comes to sovereignty. He feels hes making good progress on all fronts. But the one thing that keeps humans from going interplanetary is a nuclear war that destroys the planet and thats what hes terrified of right now. Its what he cant control, what he sees looming, and hes desperate to stop it. While he does have a sense of right and wrong Russians seem to strangely lack, as far as he sees it any peace at any terms is far preferably to the moment a nuke launches. Its too soon. He was supposed to make humans interplanetary BEFORE this happened to save the species. Thats why he proposed and desperately hopes for a terrible "peace".

Am I right I'm thinking he's a space cadet, in layman's?

 

[Charlie Sweet]

Who takes a cat to an emergency bomb shelter!??!

Taiwan is a very very big mess in waiting, the best solution I can see would be one where they are part of China but are allowed a large degree of autonomy from the mainland (legally it is Chinese territory). Think the more forward thinking amongst the Chinese upper echelon have that mindset, now if that's acceptable to the current rulers in Taiwan or its external supporters is a whole other matter.

China are different to Russia in terms of they are a manufacturing export based economy reliant on import of raw commodities hugely, a full blown military conflict would devastate their own economy (wouldn't do the west's much good either tbf)


Personal hope, is that it maintains as it is rather than deteriorate until the White House has someone whose able to sit down and talk things over with the Chinese as current policy just is throwing fuel onto a fire.

Oh surprise. You're on China's side.

 

[bluestevon]

Doesnt that completely ignore the UN rules on self determination?

Problem is the UN as an entity for anything substantial is useless mate, literally it's a dead duck.

When you have permanent members of the SC with veto powers over literally any resolution, then it simply has zero power, hard to go into it without sounding whataboutism but I'll give it a go, Russia invade Ukraine and effectively nothing the UN can do besides posturing or finger wagging from certain members, same with Iraq with the US and it'd be the same with China over Taiwan.


You have the major works powers with vetos - certain countries ALWAYS vote in line with others no matter what it's about (effectively blocks) and being able to abstain is the cherry on the cake as it gives countries the ability to default give support by saying nothing.

It's pretty much been replaced by the West using the term international rule based order these days (which in reality means what they decide is right) and in China/Russia and other countries with power it's just not even been replaced but just been ignored as irrelevant.

Can it be saved, or replaced with something genuinely that has more power, honestly don't know, but as it stands it's kinda an outdated leftover from a bye gone era that ne'er saw it being reformed as the world changed.

Case in point and more on topic, in the UN - Taiwan is referred to as Taiwan province of China, the Chinese use this legal designation politically to show legitimacy, but to change that in the UN would require...yup you guessed it, the Chinese not to veto it ...

 

[Tree13]

So incredibly depressing. "Any negotiations for peace cannot include any discussion about Crimea, or any of the seized territories."

Written stark at 4:05 in this video: "We are ready to negotiate only about capitulation."

Putin and his Nazi cronies just want to seize every part of Ukraine that benefits from gas and oil reserves. That's it. Their price for peace, stated in the video, is that every piece of Ukrainian land they've seized is ceded to them.

One of these Nazi talking heads even said, when attacked by the other Nazi talking heads, that his idea about potentially using Elon Musk as a conduit for exploring peace talks was just an aspect of information warfare. At 4:25 he says " I said we should declare it, not actually do it."

How anyone can regard this as reasonable or blameless is beyond me.

 

[Lobster Johnson]

Problem is the UN as an entity for anything substantial is useless mate, literally it's a dead duck.

When you have permanent members of the SC with veto powers over literally any resolution, then it simply has zero power, hard to go into it without sounding whataboutism but I'll give it a go, Russia invade Ukraine and effectively nothing the UN can do besides posturing or finger wagging from certain members, same with Iraq with the US and it'd be the same with China over Taiwan.


You have the major works powers with vetos - certain countries ALWAYS vote in line with others no matter what it's about (effectively blocks) and being able to abstain is the cherry on the cake as it gives countries the ability to default give support by saying nothing.

It's pretty much been replaced by the West using the term international rule based order these days (which in reality means what they decide is right) and in China/Russia and other countries with power it's just not even been replaced but just been ignored as irrelevant.

Can it be saved, or replaced with something genuinely that has more power, honestly don't know, but as it stands it's kinda an outdated leftover from a bye gone era that ne'er saw it being reformed as the world changed.

Case in point and more on topic, in the UN - Taiwan is referred to as Taiwan province of China, the Chinese use this legal designation politically to show legitimacy, but to change that in the UN would require...yup you guessed it, the Chinese not to veto it ...

Alright, I'm going to park that argument because we could be here all day and I have a boring presentation to rework. Let me rephrase that slightly.

Doesn't that completely ignore the Taiwanese people's right to self determination?

 

[bluestevon]

Who takes a cat to an emergency bomb shelter!??!



Oh surprise. You're on China's side.

Surprise you have zero ability to actually read something and understand it

It's realism of a situation, China will never let Taiwan become fully independent, it's as simple as that, so starting any thought on the situation from.a standpoint of 'the only solution acceptable is a fully independent Taiwan' is frankly pissing into the wind.

 

[Lobster Johnson]

Surprise you have zero ability to actually read something and understand it

It's realism of a situation, China will never let Taiwan become fully independent, it's as simple as that, so starting any thought on the situation from.a standpoint of 'the only solution acceptable is a fully independent Taiwan' is frankly pissing into the wind.

Might makes right, then?

 

[bluestevon]

So incredibly depressing. "Any negotiations for peace cannot include any discussion about Crimea, or any of the seized territories."

Written stark at 4:05 in this video: "We are ready to negotiate only about capitulation."

Putin and his Nazi cronies just want to seize every part of Ukraine that benefits from gas and oil reserves. That's it. Their price for peace, stated in the video, is that every piece of Ukrainian land they've seized is ceded to them.

One of these Nazi talking heads even said, when attacked by the other Nazi talking heads, that his idea about potentially using Elon Musk as a conduit for exploring peace talks was just an aspect of information warfare. At 4:25 he says " I said we should declare it, not actually do it."

How anyone can regard this as reasonable or blameless is beyond me.

Not seen the vid as I'm at work mate, but what I suspect and have done for a whilst is that Russia will ultimately want to acquire all territory they deem Novorussiya before this ends. How achievable that is God knows, how if they do any form of agreement can after that be reached I also don't know.

 

[Tree13]

For those interested in information NOT cooked up by the Kremlin, here is the transcript of a speech given yesterday by the Vice President of the EU Commission, who also happens to be the EU's High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy.

https://t.co/qdCscrKtEk

It's a long read and covers many more points than just Ukraine - but he does confirm that the US was loudly telling the EU, in advance, of Russia's true intention to invade Ukraine. He states that he personally received high-level confirmation from the US two days before the invasion that intel was certain that it would all kick off... in two days.

 

[bluestevon]

Might makes right, then?

In international politics mate, it kinda does though. Should it do, no, but the reality is it has always worked that way.

Until there is some way it doesn't work that way, then any problem has to recognize that reality to come to any solution.

 

[Tree13]

Not seen the vid as I'm at work mate, but what I suspect and have done for a whilst is that Russia will ultimately want to acquire all territory they deem Novorussiya before this ends. How achievable that is God knows, how if they do any form of agreement can after that be reached I also don't know.

Yeah bit of a time difference for you, sorry!

I'd be interested in hearing your take when you've had a chance to watch the video.

Does Novorussiya encompass MORE than just the stretch of Ukraine from Donbass to Crimea currently occupied by Russian troops? It's not a term I'm familiar with.

 

[Lobster Johnson]

In international politics mate, it kinda does though. Should it do, no, but the reality is it has always worked that way.

Until there is some way it doesn't work that way, then any problem has to recognize that reality to come to any solution.

Well it's never going to stop working as long as we just give bellicose totalitarians everything they want, is it?

 

[bluestevon]

Alright, I'm going to park that argument because we could be here all day and I have a boring presentation to rework. Let me rephrase that slightly.

Doesn't that completely ignore the Taiwanese people's right to self determination?

Yup because the UN says it has the right but then gives countries powers to block that right being expressed legally. Which is ultimately why it's a toothless organisation for over twenty years or more mate