Current Affairs Ukraine

[Lobster Johnson]

Just started work mate, can source the links later, from memory they where made in April the Biden one was walked back frantically by the white house (think the Blinken speech wasn't though)

Cheers, will have a look-see

 

[larrygobfiend]

Yup which is why it's insanity to have provoked it in the first place.

If you buy the line Putins unstable or a madman etc (I don't), and you clearly know what are the red lines, then why on earth do you push and push and then act surprised when he does exactly what he said he'd do if you did what you did. Then you talk about breaking Russia and say the goals regime change (Blinken and Biden) it's madness of the highest order mate.

Dies it excuse anything, nope.

But was it entirely predictable what would happen - yes and still nobody thought hey maybe we shouldn't do it.

I know why you’re doing this, you’re protecting yourself and your family. You’re paranoid in case they’re monitoring you. You’re not that gullible

 

[Bluerover]

Well done Taoiseach.

I had a few pints of Beamish with him in Mulligan's back in the day when I was in the Department of Health. A decent bloke, even if we don't agree on some matters.

Taoiseach brands Russia a 'rogue state' in UN speech

Taoiseach Micheál Martin has told the UN General Assembly that Russia is behaving as a "rogue state".

www.rte.ie

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Yup which is why it's insanity to have provoked it in the first place.

If you buy the line Putins unstable or a madman etc (I don't), and you clearly know what are the red lines, then why on earth do you push and push and then act surprised when he does exactly what he said he'd do if you did what you did. Then you talk about breaking Russia and say the goals regime change (Blinken and Biden) it's madness of the highest order mate.

Dies it excuse anything, nope.

But was it entirely predictable what would happen - yes and still nobody thought hey maybe we shouldn't do it.

Was he provoked in Syria? Georgia? He seems to murder a lot of people and his apologists blame everyone else.

 

[larrygobfiend]

Any mobilisation videos from Moscow or
St. Petersburg or is it just the poor people being rounded up?

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

I have to be honest: while I tend to agree with the West's position here, it is extraordinarily difficult to defend it against charges of hypocrisy. It is really hard for an impartial external observer to distinguish between a legitimate plebiscite and one conducted at gunpoint, without being on the ground.

You cannot conduct a referendum on a battlegound, especially one that is split between opposing sides and has a large percentage of its population in refuge elsewhere. The premise is nonsense. Also I have heard Putins prpoganda saying that because a high percentage of the population in the area speak Russian that this indicates that they want to be Russian! Following that logic we might assume that large swathes of America want to be part of the UK.

 

[Martin Alvito]

You cannot conduct a referendum on a battlegound, especially one that is split between opposing sides and has a large percentage of its population in refuge elsewhere. The premise is nonsense. Also I have heard Putins prpoganda saying that because a high percentage of the population in the area speak Russian that this indicates that they want to be Russian! Following that logic we might assume that large swathes of America want to be part of the UK.

There have been periods when I would have taken that, but you can keep Boris and Liz Truss. lol

 

[bluestevon]

Was he provoked in Syria? Georgia? He seems to murder a lot of people and his apologists blame everyone else.

Why on earth would I think he was provoked in Georgia for? If anything it was the other way round and Georgia was provoked into attacking and fell into a trap laid for them mate.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Yes because I've constantly advocated that the war is a good thing.

Besides it's links to the rs, calling me comrade or red btw isn't an offensive thing at all, for one it shows you have zero idea Russia isn't communist anymore, it's actually a right wing leadership, and secondly yup my political opinions are way closer to communist than say Thatcherism.

Fact that a few here think calling someone communist is an insult is bizarre though.

People aren't trying to insult you. Just hanging the badges you are painting for yourself back on you.

 

[bluestevon]

Cheers, will have a look-see

The comments I said from Blinken was actually from Austin after their joint press conference after their visit to Kiev mate.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

 

[Alan Whittle]

Well done Taoiseach.

I had a few pints of Beamish with him in Mulligan's back in the day when I was in the Department of Health. A decent bloke, even if we don't agree on some matters.

Taoiseach brands Russia a 'rogue state' in UN speech

Taoiseach Micheál Martin has told the UN General Assembly that Russia is behaving as a "rogue state".

www.rte.ie

Done the Beamish Brewery a couple of times on stag do’s. Great place.

 

[Yarrgh]

You cannot conduct a referendum on a battlegound, especially one that is split between opposing sides and has a large percentage of its population in refuge elsewhere. The premise is nonsense. Also I have heard Putins prpoganda saying that because a high percentage of the population in the area speak Russian that this indicates that they want to be Russian! Following that logic we might assume that large swathes of America want to be part of the UK.

If you said the UK being part of the USA then you might get a more similar analogy. Anyway not for this thread!

Regardless of what we all think, the referendums are now taking place. Soon these regions will be stuffed with armed Russians - not sure if soldier is an appropriate term. It's going to be carnage taking the areas back into Ukraine and god alone knows what will happen to non occupied areas.

My guess is Russia wants a frozen conflict like it has going on in Transnistra and neither side will concede defeat and it normalises and interest is lost outside of Ukraine and Russia. With time they'll return some areas, perhaps Kherson for returning to the fold internationally whilst keeping hold of Donbass and the corridor to Crimea with some money and gas to grease the wheels in Ukraine and cold Europe. If the US can get an oil or gas company back into Russia and/or fracking rights in the occupied areas then its endgame in sight with a % to Ukraine. But I'm not cynical...

 

[bluestevon]

You cannot conduct a referendum on a battlegound, especially one that is split between opposing sides and has a large percentage of its population in refuge elsewhere. The premise is nonsense. Also I have heard Putins prpoganda saying that because a high percentage of the population in the area speak Russian that this indicates that they want to be Russian! Following that logic we might assume that large swathes of America want to be part of the UK.

I agree with the first part completely, you can't hold a referendum in an active war zone.

The reason why they're doing so isn't about international law though, it's about internal Russian law which Putin is following to the letter in this conflict.
The recognition of the independant territories as such enabled him to order the SMO under Russian and as was argued at the time following UN law to give justification. Before that Russia had refused calls from Donbass to recognize their independence from Ukraine as to do so would have under Russian law forced Russia to have intervened.

The referendum again is about Russian law and what it allows under a SMO and once that referendum makes those areas Russian territory in Russias eyes, it will legally allow them to change the SMO into a war, and that changes everything in terms of allowable actions from the military. Up till now the Russian army has not been engaging according to it's military doctrines, and it's shown.

I fear this thing is gonna go up a huge notch in terms of destruction in the very best future

 

[Spadge Vernacular]