Current Affairs Ukraine

[Yarrgh]

I doubt that would ever happened, Russia is too big and mentally (both internally and from Europe point of view) was always on other side of the fence and always looked with suspicion, even when they were part of various European alliances historically, them bowing to America like European states, no way.

Also i don't think America would vote vote for it, ever since 1945 Russia was big, bad enemy and used as excuse for various wars and interventions and funding of American military, them letting them into organization that was made to fight them, i highly doubt it.

It's all a moot point now.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

I doubt that would ever happened, Russia is too big and mentally (both internally and from Europe point of view) was always on other side of the fence and always looked with suspicion, even when they were part of various European alliances historically, them bowing to America like European states, no way.

Also i don't think America would vote vote for it, ever since 1945 Russia was big, bad enemy and used as excuse for various wars and interventions and funding of American military, them letting them in, i highly doubt it.

Hhhmmm, they were well on the way to coming in from the cold under Gorbachev (driven by USA and Reagan) , if he was followed by a similar thinking president, then who know where Russia would be now regarding the world stage. Putin has undone all of that.

 

[stipe]

Hhhmmm, they were well on the way to coming in from the cold under Gorbachev (driven by USA and Reagan) , if he was followed by a similar thinking president, then who know where Russia would be now regarding the world stage. Putin has undone all of that.

From what i recall people actually voted for preservation of USSR (in Russia) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Soviet_Union_referendum but it still couldn't stop collapse.

Yeltsin that followed was also incompetent drunk who allowed for rise of mafia and various Oligarchs who pretty much took control of entirety of Russia during 1990s.

 

[tsubaki]

I have said it numerous times that we should have bought Russia into the fold as soon as the Soviet Union fell and got them "westernised" and integrated into the west so that they had enough skin in our game yhat they'd not be creating situations like the one in Ukraine.

Alas, there's no way to go back and test that hypothesis.

Not to go back, but even now there are things that could be done diplomatically to lower the temperature and prevent the sort of either/or situation that happened in Ukraine in 2014, almost happened in Belarus in 2020, almost happened in Kazakhstan earlier this year and which is the one thing Putin's regime is set up to prevent happening.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

From what i recall people actually voted for preservation of USSR (in Russia) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Soviet_Union_referendum but it still couldn't stop collapse.

Yeltsin that followed was also incompetent drunk who allowed for rise of mafia and various Oligarchs who pretty much took control of entirety of Russia during 1990s.

Been downhill ever since. It’s now a quasi terrorist state run by gangsters.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

From what i recall people actually voted for preservation of USSR (in Russia) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Soviet_Union_referendum but it still couldn't stop collapse.

Yeltsin that followed was also incompetent drunk who allowed for rise of mafia and various Oligarchs who pretty much took control of entirety of Russia during 1990s.

Yeltsin is a legend for all the wrong reasons, total vodka-hoover

 

[stipe]

Yeltsin is a legend for all the wrong reasons, total vodka-hoover

Yeah, if you want to watch funny videos of him making fool of himself, still plenty on Youtube, from personally conducting military orchestra while visiting Germany, falling asleep in plane while in Ireland to legends of him wandering naked around White House searching for place to buy pizza.

While funny to us outsiders, from what i read he was seen as embarrassment by ordinary Russians.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Yeah, if you want to watch funny videos of him making fool of himself, still plenty on Youtube, from personally conducting military orchestra while visiting Germany, falling asleep in plane while in Ireland to legends of him wandering naked around White House searching for place to buy pizza.

While funny to us outsiders, from what i read he was seen as embarrassment by ordinary Russians.

Yes, I’ve seen many of those. Perhaps the Russians can now relate to us having had a total buffoon conducting our orchestra for the last few years

 

[davids]

Ukraine, Russia sign grain export deal

The plan, brokered by the United Nations and Turkey, allows Ukrainian ports to restart grain exports. A monthslong Russian blockade has pushed prices higher and threatened global food shortages.

beta.dw.com

US says strike on Odesa 'casts doubt' on Russian credibility

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken says Washington strongly condemns Russia's missile attack on Ukraine's Black Sea port of Odesa. DW rounds up the latest.

beta.dw.com

DPR fingerprints all over this one,they would hate anything that could lead to any type of ceasefire.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

DPR fingerprints all over this one,they would hate anything that could lead to any type of ceasefire.

You’re having a nightmare here

 

[catcherintherye]

Do you deny this? What's your take on the Azoz Bettalian then mate?

 

[catcherintherye]

I take it you’re referring to the Azov Batallion?

Yes I’d agree they had/have direct extreme right-wing ideals, but strange times call for strange bedfellows. In a peacetime environment and with Ukraine entering the EU I would expect to see more control over such views.

Right wing extremism is not simply limited to Ukraine but exists throughout Europe. France very nearly had a nazi princess running the show! Nazis are even rife within Russia itself. In reality white Nationalism exists and is on the rise everywhere, therefore I think it’s a tad unwise to single out Ukraine.

At a time of national crisis Ukraine needed soldiers who would fight for their country, so for me personally I’m not going to stand in judgement of Zelensky. I would however reserve that judgement to when the peace has been won and a new Ukraine can be built from the ashes. Only then can we really judge the political leadership of Ukraine.

I'm sorry mate, but this is just excusing and apologising for Nazism. Arming these people is beyond the pale.

What's funny, is the pro Ukraine acolytes, like you see in this thread, want to pretend it isnt happening. It's incredibly insulting to people of colour, Jewish people, the LGBT community etc. Arming these scumbags isnt the answer, and will cause more harm than any good.

 

[PhilM]

I'm sorry mate, but this is just excusing and apologising for Nazism. Arming these people is beyond the pale.

What's funny, is the pro Ukraine acolytes, like you see in this thread, want to pretend it isnt happening. It's incredibly insulting to people of colour, Jewish people, the LGBT community etc. Arming these scumbags isnt the answer, and will cause more harm than any good.

I'd suggest it's less to do with pretending it isn't happening and more a reality that, like Mutz mentioned, desperate times require some questionable measures.

The Azov are a real danger to the stability of eastern Ukraine and beyond once the war is over, however there's a greater danger to Ukraine now without them.

It really is a difficult situation with no unblemished outcome which option they choose, but rightly or wrongly it's a situation Ukraine finds itself in.

You only need to look back over the last hundred or so years and see some of the reprehensible alliances (more often uneasy acceptance) for the greater good.

Some will call it pragmatism; some will use words like amoral; others, perhaps rightly, will think its lamentable, but it's easy to say so when not in position.

As stated otherwise, I personally think it'll be best to judge when they're not required although let's not pretend that it'll be a clean affair afterwards.

Ukraine is fighting for its very existence.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

I'm sorry mate, but this is just excusing and apologising for Nazism. Arming these people is beyond the pale.

What's funny, is the pro Ukraine acolytes, like you see in this thread, want to pretend it isnt happening. It's incredibly insulting to people of colour, Jewish people, the LGBT community etc. Arming these scumbags isnt the answer, and will cause more harm than any good.

The Azov battalion is all but gone my friend. We are now arming the fathers and sons of Ukraine against a murderous, raping gsng of thugs.
There is zero grief to be laid at the feet of the Ukrainians fighting for their lives.
To then insinuate it’s insulting to the people you listed is bizarre, and actually insulting in itself

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Do you deny this? What's your take on the Azoz Bettalian then mate?

That they’re finished