Current Affairs Ukraine

[davids]

Your point being? Russia would rather said countries were not part of NATO which is, by its nature, an organisation that is influenced be certain member states.

So yes, they would rather it be under their sphere of influence. To do this, a foe may want to destabilise to the point they leave NATO, EU and others.

With reference to the hypersonic missiles, to clarify I wrote, "the state and efficiency ... is also up for debate as some may believe they're not yet ready."

This is reference to the US downplaying its efficiency and a number of NATO nations suggesting it may not be as capable as Russia would want us to believe.

To clarify at to not lead to more misquotes or misinterpretation, hypersonic missile technology is often labelled due to their potential ability - their capacity.

This is speeds of mach 5 plus, with low and flat trajectories and high mobility meaning they'll be hard to detect and will be able to avoid defences.

Defence experts are saying that while the Russian missiles are able to exceed mach 5, they lack the latter trait and the trajectories are similar to cruise missiles.

So ultimately we're talking about an upgraded cruise missile rather than the proposed abilities people are worried about - again the grey area.*

And yes they do have well trained troops, but the point people have made is their overall standard of their armed forces is lower than many western counterparts.

This comes down to a lower mean standard with more troops but more poorly trained and equipment that is, as an average, quite poor in comparison.

It's like with the standard of their subs (ask @john jako or @Dylan) or their air force (ask @Mutzo Nutzo and others) - it's all relative.

*We have hypersonic missiles too - Trident. But oh, we're talking about specific abilities aren't we rather than misunderstanding the generic term.

Yes obviously Trident are hypersonic but nothing like the Russian hypersonic missiles I referred to. Any ICBM is hypersonic on re-entry. I'm interested in how you think Russia can destabilise a country out of Nato... brainwash the whole population? Latvia are requesting more Nato support. Hardly what you'd expect from a country who could be destabilised to the point of leaving.

Latvia wants more NATO troops amid Russian threat

Estonia and Lithuania support the country’s stance.

www.google.com

There is a part for propaganda but I think you are being taken in by some real tosh.
Meanwhile in Lithuania...

Lithuania's president calls for more NATO troops

NATO should increase its deployment of troops in Lithuania and elsewhere on Europe's eastern flank following Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Lithuania's president told Germany's foreign minister during a meeting in Vilnius on Friday.

www.google.com

 

[roydo]

Any ICBM is hypersonic on re-entry.

They go into space? Didnt know that. I expect they dont.

 

[Yarrgh]

They go into space? Didnt know that. I expect they dont.

Sub-orbital space perhaps yes. See one passing through the window of the ISS? Probably not.

 

[davids]

They go into space? Didnt know that. I expect they dont.

"Once the booster falls away, the remaining "bus" releases several warheads, each of which continues on its own unpowered ballistic trajectory, much like an artillery shell or cannonball. The warhead is encased in a cone-shaped reentry vehicle and is difficult to detect in this phase of flight as there is no rocket exhaust or other emissions to mark its position to defenders. The high speeds of the warheads make them difficult to intercept and allow for little warning, striking targets many thousands of kilometers away from the launch site (and due to the possible locations of the submarines: anywhere in the world) within approximately 30 minutes"
It's terminology,but I'm sure one of our resident Call of Duty players will be along to cut and paste more specific information.

 

[tsubaki]

Yes obviously Trident are hypersonic but nothing like the Russian hypersonic missiles I referred to. Any ICBM is hypersonic on re-entry. I'm interested in how you think Russia can destabilise a country out of Nato... brainwash the whole population? Latvia are requesting more Nato support. Hardly what you'd expect from a country who could be destabilised to the point of leaving.

Latvia wants more NATO troops amid Russian threat

Estonia and Lithuania support the country’s stance.

www.google.com

There is a part for propaganda but I think you are being taken in by some real tosh.
Meanwhile in Lithuania...

Lithuania's president calls for more NATO troops

NATO should increase its deployment of troops in Lithuania and elsewhere on Europe's eastern flank following Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Lithuania's president told Germany's foreign minister during a meeting in Vilnius on Friday.

www.google.com

Hungary is a much better example of a country that could be destabilized to the point of leaving.

 

[PhilM]

Yes obviously Trident are hypersonic but nothing like the Russian hypersonic missiles I referred to. Any ICBM is hypersonic on re-entry. I'm interested in how you think Russia can destabilise a country out of Nato... brainwash the whole population? Latvia are requesting more Nato support. Hardly what you'd expect from a country who could be destabilised to the point of leaving.

Latvia wants more NATO troops amid Russian threat

Estonia and Lithuania support the country’s stance.

www.google.com

There is a part for propaganda but I think you are being taken in by some real tosh.
Meanwhile in Lithuania...

Lithuania's president calls for more NATO troops

NATO should increase its deployment of troops in Lithuania and elsewhere on Europe's eastern flank following Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Lithuania's president told Germany's foreign minister during a meeting in Vilnius on Friday.

www.google.com

The hypersonic missiles that multiple reputable defence sources have questioned in terms of their actual ability?

You talked about the Daily Mail before, but most reputable sources have questioned their actual status (see @Mutzo Nutzo) where as the DM says otherwise.

In terms of destabilisation, the fact you've mentioned 'brainwashing the whole country' highlights your linear understanding of how such tactics work.

Agencies such as the SVR, DGSE, SIS, CIA etc, will look at political leverage through securing influential figures, sometimes at opposing ends of the spectrum.

Through divide and rule, financially supporting relevant causes and influencing certain companies they'll aim to cause enough division to splinter support.

You don't need to brainwash everyone to get a stronger grip on those who can influence power. China is doing this right now in many, many countries.

Russia won't be looking at the Baltic states being a quick cause, but the SVR, GRU and others are and will continue to work towards such ends.

The current Lithuanian leadership are rightly concerned hence the call for more troops, but there are parties there, supported by Russia, who are growing.

Look at how the FRU and others went about ultimately wining the war against the PIRA; you don't need to brainwash the population to obtain your goals.

You may say it's tosh, whereas I'd suggest it's personal experience of how things actually happen rather than relying on the internet.

 

[davids]

The hypersonic missiles that multiple reputable defence sources have questioned in terms of their actual ability?

You talked about the Daily Mail before, but most reputable sources have questioned their actual status (see @Mutzo Nutzo) where as the DM says otherwise.

In terms of destabilisation, the fact you've mentioned 'brainwashing the whole country' highlights your linear understanding of how such tactics work.

Agencies such as the SVR, DGSE, SIS, CIA etc, will look at political leverage through securing influential figures, sometimes at opposing ends of the spectrum.

Through divide and rule, financially supporting relevant causes and influencing certain companies they'll aim to cause enough division to splinter support.

You don't need to brainwash everyone to get a stronger grip on those who can influence power. China is doing this right now in many, many countries.

Russia won't be looking at the Baltic states being a quick cause, but the SVR, GRU and others are and will continue to work towards such ends.

The current Lithuanian leadership are rightly concerned hence the call for more troops, but there are parties there, supported by Russia, who are growing.

Look at how the FRU and others went about ultimately wining the war against the PIRA; you don't need to brainwash the population to obtain your goals.

You may say it's tosh, whereas I'd suggest it's personal experience of how things actually happen rather than relying on the internet.

Source for your info...GCHQ? Or Call of Duty?

 

[PhilM]

Source for your info...GCHQ? Or Call of Duty?

No, Templer.

 

[davids]

Hungary is a much better example of a country that could be destabilized to the point of leaving.

US have lots of previous doing that, maybe they can give the Hungarians lessons on how not to become destabilised. No doubt the US are doing their thing in Venezuela at this very moment.?

 

[stipe]

Hungary is a much better example of a country that could be destabilized to the point of leaving.

Hungary never fit anyway (historically), you could say they were always troublemaker. During old Habsburg Empire they were constantly raising revolutions against Vienna, until Austria finally relented and reformed their empire from centralist Austrian into Austro-Hungarian (that pissed every other nations inside empire like Czechs, Poles, Croats etc.....).

Then during Soviet era it was Hungary who first rebelled against Moscow with that revolution of 1956. And now again in EU, they are the one who always seem most vocal resisting Brussels.

 

[davids]

The hypersonic missiles that multiple reputable defence sources have questioned in terms of their actual ability?

You talked about the Daily Mail before, but most reputable sources have questioned their actual status (see @Mutzo Nutzo) where as the DM says otherwise.

In terms of destabilisation, the fact you've mentioned 'brainwashing the whole country' highlights your linear understanding of how such tactics work.

Agencies such as the SVR, DGSE, SIS, CIA etc, will look at political leverage through securing influential figures, sometimes at opposing ends of the spectrum.

Through divide and rule, financially supporting relevant causes and influencing certain companies they'll aim to cause enough division to splinter support.

You don't need to brainwash everyone to get a stronger grip on those who can influence power. China is doing this right now in many, many countries.

Russia won't be looking at the Baltic states being a quick cause, but the SVR, GRU and others are and will continue to work towards such ends.

The current Lithuanian leadership are rightly concerned hence the call for more troops, but there are parties there, supported by Russia, who are growing.

Look at how the FRU and others went about ultimately wining the war against the PIRA; you don't need to brainwash the population to obtain your goals.

You may say it's tosh, whereas I'd suggest it's personal experience of how things actually happen rather than relying on the internet.

Huge leap of faith with your timing,it surmises that in the time it would take to destabilise a country that is a Nato member Putin would still be alive ( he's suffering from terminal cancer doncha know) and that any of his contemporaries would automatically be as bat crap crazy as him.

 

[PhilM]

Huge leap of faith with your timing,it surmises that in the time it would take to destabilise a country that is a Nato member Putin would still be alive ( he's suffering from terminal cancer doncha know) and that any of his contemporaries would automatically be as bat [Poor language removed] crazy as him.

I don't actually understand your point here. In terms of timings, the likes of the SVR aren't going to be working to a short term schedule and one based on Putin.

These things are multi-layered and can be generational. Again, let's look at how the plan to destabilise the PIRA and Irish Nationalism took twenty-plus years.

These started in the mid 70s but only came to fruition by the mid 90s when most of the senior PIRA men were willingly or unknowingly pawns of the services.

Most nationalists within the community would have be en against a ceasefire and the compromises made, but you don't need everyone - you need the key people.

This was not reliant on Heath remaining in power, the same political power, the chiefs of staff staying the same or whatever else. This comes from civil servants.

Russia is working in the Baltic States; the MSS is working here and elsewhere; our services are working around the world. All focusing on long-term goals.

By the way, have/had you heard of Templer Barracks?

 

[catcherintherye]

Putin OTOH listenin every advice given and acts accordingly

Putin is also a tyrant.

 

[Deleted member 48881]

Putin is also a tyrant.

Putin and Zelenskiy...you can't really distinguish can you..

 

[davids]

I don't actually understand your point here. In terms of timings, the likes of the SVR aren't going to be working to a short term schedule and one based on Putin.

These things are multi-layered and can be generational. Again, let's look at how the plan to destabilise the PIRA and Irish Nationalism took twenty-plus years.

These started in the mid 70s but only came to fruition by the mid 90s when most of the senior PIRA men were willingly or unknowingly pawns of the services.

Most nationalists within the community would have be en against a ceasefire and the compromises made, but you don't need everyone - you need the key people.

This was not reliant on Heath remaining in power, the same political power, the chiefs of staff staying the same or whatever else. This comes from civil servants.

Russia is working in the Baltic States; the MSS is working here and elsewhere; our services are working around the world. All focusing on long-term goals.

By the way, have/had you heard of Templer Barracks?

You're making the assumption that what Putin has perpetrated on the Ukraine is the beginning some sort of long- term conspiracy (theory) for Russia to take back the old USSR,it's Putin, when he ends it'll end. And if we believe the BBC etc he's not got long to live.