Two steps forward

[kithnou]

No, I was just being a nob

Yes you were. But it must be said, this Manager sure does divide a supporter base.

 

[Zatara]

Another knee jerk based on a single game (again) where with any luck or even dare i say justice we would have won.

Not Martinez fault yesterday. Ridiculous to suggest otherwise and clearly we would be top 4 but for really bad luck in games and key injuries.

We look like a fantastic team close to success.

 

[kithnou]

Another knee jerk based on a single game (again) where with any luck or even dare i say justice we would have won.

Not Martinez fault yesterday. Ridiculous to suggest otherwise and clearly we would be top 4 but for really bad luck in games and key injuries.

We look like a fantastic team close to success.

There are too many weak links in the team for it to be classified as fantastic.
I keep saying we are 3 quality players in the starting 11 away from being fantastic.

 

[Zatara]

There are too many weak links in the team for it to be classified as fantastic.
I keep saying we are 3 quality players in the starting 11 away from being fantastic.

GK -- ??? / Robles
LB -- Baines / Garbutt
LCB -- Mori / Galloway
RCB -- Stones / Jagielka
RB -- Coleman / ???
DM -- McCarthy / Barry
CM -- Besic / ???
AM -- Barkley / ???
LW -- Niasse / Cleverley
CF -- Lukaku / ???
RW -- Deulofeu / Lennon

Tarashaj to be backup for Barkley. Holgate etc to come through initially at RB.

Add in Butland / Calhanoglu / Bony into this squad and we look top 4.

 

[TheFinnFan]

No time to over analyze this crap lads

Frustrating defeat

We got the Pulis buss rammed into our anus. Into the next one.

 

[kithnou]

GK -- ??? / Robles
LB -- Baines / Garbutt
LCB -- Mori / Galloway
RCB -- Stones / Jagielka
RB -- Coleman / ???
DM -- McCarthy / Barry
CM -- Besic / ???
AM -- Barkley / ???
LW -- Niasse / Cleverley
CF -- Lukaku / ???
RW -- Deulofeu / Lennon

Tarashaj to be backup for Barkley. Holgate etc to come through initially at RB.

Add in Butland / Calhanoglu / Bony into this squad and we look top 4.

My take for top 4 based on current performance, rather than in past or fans overrating players?
Lb and Rb poor the last two seasons. Jags, as much we all love, needs an upgrade. McCarthy overrated but can take the place of Barry. Can't both play.
LW a big concern. Besic never fit so needs cover. Keeper a huge concern.
That's 6 or 7 issues I see with the team long term to be a fantastic team regularly in top 4. At least two more summers of strengthening without losing our young guns.
Europa League needs to be our target and looks like we will fall short.

 

[Zatara]

My take for top 4 based on current performance, rather than in past or fans overrating players?
Lb and Rb poor the last two seasons. Jags, as much we all love, needs an upgrade. McCarthy overrated but can take the place of Barry. Can't both play.
LW a big concern. Besic never fit so needs cover. Keeper a huge concern.
That's 6 or 7 issues I see with the team long term to be a fantastic team regularly in top 4. At least two more summers of strengthening without losing our young guns.
Europa League needs to be our target and looks like we will fall short.

See my squad thread, ive amended it with Oviedo signing...

I dont want Europa this season as i want us to sign quality with our money and not squad fillers or to give extensions out.

 

[BlueToff]

I said it last week and I'll say it again. If you thought everything was rosy because we'd beaten a couple of poor sides and finally won 2 on the trot, then it's not others who are fickle.

I see problems with this side which have not been addressed in 18 months and I'm worried. I'm happy when we win but I don't let it blind me. I don't think we're going in the right direction & until we show genuine signs of long term improvement that opinion won't change. I'm sick of fans having a go at other fans for not accepting the utterly abysmal home performances we've been seeing this season.

No I didn't, and hang on since when have the mighty Stoke that so many have compared us to been a poor side?

West Brom turned up yesterday and did a job on us. Our performance was far from abysmal. They frustrated us and played on the counter, just as we have done to several sides on the road this season. They also got extremely lucky... When we tried to do exactly the same against Man City - when the game changed on a horrid refereeing decision - Martinez got the blame.

And it's not about accepting the performances, but they just really really haven't been that bad.

 

[Lanolin]

No I didn't, and hang on since when have the mighty Stoke that so many have compared us to been a poor side?

West Brom turned up yesterday and did a job on us. Our performance was far from abysmal. They frustrated us and played on the counter, just as we have done to several sides on the road this season. They also got extremely lucky... When we tried to do exactly the same against Man City - when the game changed on a horrid refereeing decision - Martinez got the blame.

And it's not about accepting the performances, but they just really really haven't been that bad.

Stoke were undoubtedly very poor on the day. They'd also lost 2 other games 3-0 in the previous couple of weeks, and also lost to a palace side who haven't won in 9 league games. They weren't exactly in prime form.

I'm not blaming for Martinez for every little thing, but I honestly think some people are looking to offer excuses for every single setback. If yesterday had been our 2nd/3rd home loss I might have felt the same as you. But it was our 6th. Won 4, lost 6. That's awful, and I think putting every loss down to bad luck/poor refereeing/inexperience etc is wearing extremely thin.

We have to find a way to win these games and at the moment it seems he can't do that. In the 4 games we've won at home we've scored at least 3, and we've scored first in all of them. It seems to me that when we need to break a team down, or show some real fight, we fail. That's a worrying trend.

 

[Jags..class]

It's no gain to sack him now, wait till the summer. I get the feeling that some of our fans are drama queens.

 

[Michaelcoyb]

We were Pulised off. End of story.

Btw we are not the only team to have ever been done over like that.

Actually I think he has done it to us many a time.

 

[Lanolin]

I don't think we were as on top in those games you mentioned. We completely dominated WBA...they fluked a goal and did a Pulis. We still found ways through...we were unlucky not to score.

The atmosphere is crap...has been for a while. Toxic. Moyes got some sort of pass with our fans every season we started completely awfully under him. Martinez and his team gets groans and boos. It is not helpful.

Disagree. Goodison is a moody ground, always has been.

Atmosphere was generally better under moyes as the style of football and work rate was more conducive to a response from the fans, but believe me there were some very hostile reactions to home performances under him. The Wigan cup game was as close as I've ever seen to open revolt, and I can assure you that his negative substitutions did not tend to be met with widespread applause.

There is no agenda from the fans against Martinez, in fact the vast majority really like him and are desperate for him to succeed, but it's pretty difficult to sit there and politely encourage players who are often failing to do the basics and regularly losing to dross.

 

[BlueToff]

Stoke were undoubtedly very poor on the day. They'd also lost 2 other games 3-0 in the previous couple of weeks, and also lost to a palace side who haven't won in 9 league games. They weren't exactly in prime form.

I'm not blaming for Martinez for every little thing, but I honestly think some people are looking to offer excuses for every single setback. If yesterday had been our 2nd/3rd home loss I might have felt the same as you. But it was our 6th. Won 4, lost 6. That's awful, and I think putting every loss down to bad luck/poor refereeing/inexperience etc is wearing extremely thin.

We have to find a way to win these games and at the moment it seems he can't do that. In the 4 games we've won at home we've scored at least 3, and we've scored first in all of them. It seems to me that when we need to break a team down, or show some real fight, we fail. That's a worrying trend.

Our home form is bad mate, I ain't disagreeing with that. It's an issue, obviously.

Just had a feeling from the off yesterday that it was gonna be one of them, so even though I'm extremely disappointed and frustrated, in a way I expected it.

 

[Caolam]

The business of "home form" and "away form" is a nonsense for me. It is a question of employing the right tactics. If players are good enough to win away from home they are good enough to win at home. It is how you play. We need a system or a player which breaks down Pullis type teams. We can play when we are allowed space, we suffer when that space is closed down. It is the job of the manager to devise a system that works. Blaming poor home form is nonsense and blaming home fans is worse.
If the players we have can't play at Goodison buy some who can, don't sit on your hands and moan.

 

[dave abrahams]

The season is effectively over bar the FA cup mate. Fuming ain't gonna change anything. Games like this happen, it's just the way it is. End of the season is the time for change, not now.

"Games like this are happening far too often, four league wins at home all season, if you look at his home record since the
last two games of his first season up to now it is pathetic, he's had more than enough chances, he is just not good enough.