Time to face facts?

Are our coaching staff up to the job?

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I certainly didn't create the thread because my knee was jerking lol.:lol:

Yes, they have brought us this far, but it's not the first time in our history where we have had a good team, so we really shouldn't settle for where we are and not expect better.

Many managers have been sacked for bad starts to the season. I'm certainly not wanting the same for our coaches, but questions need to be asked, and improvement expected. Moyes is not above criticism, and his duties as manager of our team are being tested recently, and he needs to address the situation.

At the moment, he doesn't seem to be on top of things, and he should buck his ideas up. We should be learning from our mistakes and not repeating them, but Moyes hasn't done this.

The same players are being played despite underperforming, and there is still doubt as to who plays where.
We spend the Lescott money but leave our new acquisitions on the bench. Substitutions are being made without reason, and tactically we are poor.
We should take a risk and stop being so negative. If it doesn't work, experiment, but please stop doing the same thing over and over, as the same results will only occur.
We have come on leaps and bounds since Moyes took over, but the way our team have played in that time has been a long way from great football, despite having some real talent on our hands. I'm not sure things can develop further without an injection of new ideas, and that is why we should look closely at our coaching team, including Moyes.
 
Too negative.....I would like the players to look like they are enjoying playing for the club. I think we should be able to push home our advantage instead of relying on the defence to save us.....Negativity cost us the game on Sunday....tried to settle for the point and ended up losing...Crying out for 4-4-2.
 
You can compare Moyes and his backroom team to certain cars.

The first car has super acceleration, 0-60mph in 3.6 seconds. But its handling is awful.

The second car is ultra conservative and does 70mpg. Yet it only reaches a top speed of 55 mph.

Negatives and positives. Great at some things and bad at others. Strong points and weak points.

For me Moyes strong points have got us where we are today. Yet his weak points are contributing to us going no further.

People always say how good we would be if Moyes has money. I'm not so sure.

I'd love to see him have full financial backing so he could prove that he is good enough manager to take us that extra step (thats break into the top 4 and win things).

But is money going to take away is weak points that we all see so clearly so often?

Unfortunatly if we wish to find out if its actually Moyes stopping us from going any further we risk going back to where we were before he came here. And thats a big risk.
 
You've got to be kidding me, right?


Lets wait a little fellas, it was only five games ago you were singing his name as he took us to the FA Cup.

You would have thought he would have earned a little breathing space for dragging us up from being uber [Poor language removed] for a long time into regular European football.
 
The problem under Moyes is really the style of football, which is generally poor - with bits of woefull & near sublime for good measure. This hasn't really altered in almost 8 years. Every season we have a handful of matches where we get a glimpse of how well the team can play, we also have a handful where we see how bad they can play but most of the time it's fairly uninspiring but quite effective stuff. What I can't understand is the wide fluctuation & Moyes inability to get the better level of performance more consistently - or do these performance occur in spite of Moyes rather than because of him? All in all Moyes has done a good job but I'm not sure if he's ever going to win the club anything - he reminds me somewhat of Gordon Lee!
 
When I first wrote my feelings down in the opening post, I was a little concerned that my thoughts would be in the minority, and that I would possibly make a few enemies in doing so, but I wanted to see if I was indeed alone in my opinion.

I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing, but I'm actually surprised that so many members hold a similar point of view.

We can liken our situation to the weather funnily enough.

If we are plagued by constant thunder clouds and torrential rain, we would be thrilled if the storms were finally to stop, and the sky to clear a little.
This is exactly what Moyes has achieved in his tenure aboard the good ship Everton.
No more are we afraid of that fatal lightening strike or that deafening thunder bolt, but the problem we have is that we all want the skies to be blue.
What Moyes has done falls some way short of this, and though clearing the immidiate danger, he has left us with calm, but grey skies.
We know we are so close to finally breaking down the barriers and finally embracing wonderful clear sunshine and stars up in the sky at night, but unfortunately when we hold our hand out, more than a few of us can feel the odd rain drop returning and a dark cloud on the horizon that may come our way if the wind turns.

We all want Moyes to succeed, of that I believe to be true, but what we thought was a one off last year has again repeated itself, and yet again, there are elements that decisions made away from the pitch are again partly responsible for yet another poor start.

Yes, the board are probably knee deep in responsibility in that area too, but the board can't be held responsible for decisions made on the pitch.

Moyes alone must take sole responsibility for the decisions he makes, and just as when he is applauded for succeeding, so must he be criticised when he fails. This is only fair in my opinion.

The fans don't owe Moyes or the board anything.

They pay their money to be entertained, and unlike an audience in the theatre, they are life long devotees to the cause.

It is much more of a personal agenda for football fans. They are more than just an audience, and much more important than any VIP that takes their seat under false pretenses.
The fans are the club and always will be the club regardless of the badge on the shirt. For generations, they and their forefathers before them have invested a large part of their lives into something that only a signature on a piece of paper prevents belonging to them. They follow their club like a religion, be it at the game, on the tv, on the local radio or indeed any source available to them so they can feel part of what we all feel on match days where ever we are.

No one man is above the fans, be it player, boss, or board member so when the fans are unhappy, the club is unhappy. Moyes has the greatest job in the world, as does Ferguson, as does Wenger and so on in the eyes of their respective fans.

At no time can any manager settle for their existing achievements and use those achievements as a bargaining tool for poor performances.
The fans have been with the club since the beginning and expect 100% effort in every match. They've been there to witness the good times, and they've still been there during the bad times, and any one managers existence during his stay is merely a few beats of a heart that has been growing since the club started, regardless of their success.

I really don't buy into this train of thought that says ' without Davey this, and without Davey that '.
Without Davey, we may well have been relegated, but on the same hand, without Davey we may well have been promoted the following season and won the Premiership five times by now.

It's all ifs and maybe's.
Regardless of what he has done in the past, he still carries the hopes and ambitions of every fan on his shoulders every time he addresses a game, and as long as he continues to give everything he has in a footballing sense towards the task in hand, he will always have the support of the fans.

At the moment though, he is showing us that perhaps he isn't fully focused on the job, and his decisions have left many fans quite bemused.
All we're asking for is that he sorts this particular situation out, and continues to take us forward. If he is unable to do this, then we need to establish why he is unable to do it, and whether it is something that lies solely with Moyes, or whether other factors need to be considered.
Yes, the board need to help out with a little money, but the buck stops with him regarding the players and staff, and it's not like our players are all poor. Other clubs would bite our hands off to get their hands on our players, so why are they playing so poorly as a team?
This is why it's worth discussing, and not simply dismissing it as a blip in the life of David Moyes that will all heal itself.

PS.. Sorry for long post. I'm getting too passionate in my old age lol.:lol:
 
I think our lack of preparation (season in, season out) sets us back alot and we never fulfill our full potential. We always start off slow, Moyes messes about with the team and the new signings we bring in rarely have a pre-season with the team.

There's no continuity really, we haven't been able to work on formations, roles or partnerships. The players and thrown together and we hope that they gel fast. Alot of the time it's a case of square pegs in round holes.

All this is very important as I've never seen Moyes as a manager who advocates pass and move football. It isn't part of his philosophy, he can't get a bunch of average footballers trying to pass and move and play the right way. And it isn't impossible, Tony Mowbray did it with West Brom. Mowbray had the right ideas, he just lacked a goalscorer and had piss poor defenders. In terms of trying to retain possession and looking to control they where there though, they had the right ideas.

It took Moyes a while to realise that two defensive midfielders (Carsley and Neville) wasn't the way forward. I was seriously thinking of giving up my season ticket after the 06/07 season, the football was depressing and I seriously doubted Moyes.

Thankfully, he's now starting to realise that having 'footballers' in the middle of the park is key. Fernandes, Osman and finally Arteta where steps in the right direction and the fact that he went for Banega, looking for a midfielder 'who could play' shows me once again that he's learning and developing as a manager.

I'm hoping that the Europa games give him the chance to find that balance that we need. To be fair to him it won't be easy, any team would struggle with the players we have missing.
 
I agree with all that Toxteth. I think Neville partnering Rodwell, while helping defensively, puts a lot of pressure on Jack offensively at this stage of his career. I hope not having Heitinger forces Moyes into moving Osman or Pienaar inside for Billy and they make something happen against AEK.

The form of Fellaini makes me think Moyes will include him, the question is will he be bold and try a new central pairing or give Fellaini another whirl in centre midfield despite his comments last week.
 
I hate doing teams an [Poor language removed] but here we go....





Howard

Hibbert Yobo Distin Baines

Heitinga

Rodwell Fellini
Pienaar Bilyaletdinov

Sahs/Yakubu


Thats how i would go on Thursday night...!!!
 
deathbyropeandglass said:
You can compare Moyes and his backroom team to certain cars.

The first car has super acceleration, 0-60mph in 3.6 seconds. But its handling is awful.

The second car is ultra conservative and does 70mpg. Yet it only reaches a top speed of 55 mph.

Negatives and positives. Great at some things and bad at others. Strong points and weak points.

For me Moyes strong points have got us where we are today. Yet his weak points are contributing to us going no further.

People always say how good we would be if Moyes has money. I'm not so sure.

I'd love to see him have full financial backing so he could prove that he is good enough manager to take us that extra step (thats break into the top 4 and win things).

But is money going to take away is weak points that we all see so clearly so often?

Unfortunatly if we wish to find out if its actually Moyes stopping us from going any further we risk going back to where we were before he came here. And thats a big risk.
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thats the best comment on a forum i have ever read
thanks for enlightening me(y)

who would people like to see coming in to give us attacking edge kevin keegan?
 
Neiler said:
Pretty much disagree with most of the sentiment in this thread!
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Same as the others who disagreed before you.
They disagree but don't say why.

It doesn't really make for a great discussion does it, when one side post their thoughts, and the other point of view simply say ' I disagree' .
I can just picture the GOT headline news tomorrow......' member disagrees' ................. you heard it here first. :P
 
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