The System

[Allezfan]

The fine tuning can be worked on but we now have a system in place, which is not to everyones taste. The more we have possession means the less they have possession, I know its simplistic but it means the opposition will not be able to create as many chances. Our problem is that we are new to this type of football and it will take some time to work but in the long term it has to be the way to go if we are to progress. No team can progress far enough with long ball percentage football because its just like the toss of a coin. Possession football instilled into a club will show benefits in the long term. At the moment we are learning and Martinez will know before too long what players cannot adapt and what players can adapt and thats when his work moves to the next stage. If fans show the patience with him that we gave Moyes then you will see a very forward thinking and modern day football team/club evolve.

We had more possession vs west brom at home and norwich away last season than this.

And also more points.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

The fine tuning can be worked on but we now have a system in place, which is not to everyones taste. The more we have possession means the less they have possession, I know its simplistic but it means the opposition will not be able to create as many chances. Our problem is that we are new to this type of football and it will take some time to work but in the long term it has to be the way to go if we are to progress. No team can progress far enough with long ball percentage football because its just like the toss of a coin. Possession football instilled into a club will show benefits in the long term. At the moment we are learning and Martinez will know before too long what players cannot adapt and what players can adapt and thats when his work moves to the next stage. If fans show the patience with him that we gave Moyes then you will see a very forward thinking and modern day football team/club evolve.

I hope you're right, but I think there's some massive leaps of faith involved to get to your conclusions...

 

[banno]

We had more possession vs west brom at home and norwich away last season than this.

And also more points.

Well thats what 11 years of building rewards you with. We are now taking a different route which IMO will hold us in good stead

 

[Eggs]

...I don't think the 'new system' is working but you wouldn't expect it to after this length of time. Key is getting the players in that the Manager wants. Concern is that he appears to be limited to going back to Wigan and if the 'new system' is to work then surely we will be doomed if he employs the same players.

 

[davek]

We averaged 52% possession in the league last year, vs 57% so far this year,

You'd imagine that will drop once we play some better teams (we had more possession last year vs both Norwich away and west brom at home than we did this year in the corresponding games) but, you're right, it's a step in the right direction.

It's very impressive given the fact everyone is new to what's being asked of them. This is not a finished article and when he achieves that over time and by adding his own signings we will be a formidable unit.

 

[banno]

I hope you're right, but I think there's some massive leaps of faith involved to get to your conclusions...

I don't believe it will be plain sailing and prepared to fasten my seat belt for a bumpy ride. Just think its the best way to go and if Martinez is afforded the time then this Club will be all the better for it in the future. Not going to be easy but it could be made easier if Kenwright backed him up.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

...I don't think the 'new system' is working but you wouldn't expect it to after this length of time. Key is getting the players in that the Manager wants. Concern is that he appears to be limited to going back to Wigan and if the 'new system' is to work then surely we will be doomed if he employs the same players.

That last part is what worries me the most. Martinez's system demonstrably didn't work last season with Wigan, because they got relegated. Yes they won the FA Cup, but that was 6 wins (4 of which were against lower league opposition) and over 38 games, they went down.

Now, the argument against that was that "at Everton he'll have better players", but so far, looking at his transfer dealings, he seems fairly determined to pack the squad with as many of his former charges as possible - with the looming possibility that we're about to sell our two best players and add yet another Wigan man.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

I don't believe it will be plain sailing and prepared to fasten my seat belt for a bumpy ride. Just think its the best way to go and if Martinez is afforded the time then this Club will be all the better for it in the future. Not going to be easy but it could be made easier if Kenwright backed him up.

The biggest leap of faith is that Martinez has to actually be good enough to make it all work. And while I desperately want him to succeed (both for Everton and for him - he seems like a good guy) there's absolutely no real evidence so far to suggest that he IS good enough - despite the masterful PR job done by Dave Whelan.

 

[Allezfan]

Well thats what 11 years of building rewards you with. We are now taking a different route which IMO will hold us in good stead

I very much disagree with the idea that possession football is something alien to our players, though.

Moyes didn't have faith in it which was why we kept resorting to hoof ball but we resorted it to after thirty mintues or two months or whatever of playing pass and move.

It's not a brand new idea, at all.

 

[davek]

The biggest leap of faith is that Martinez has to actually be good enough to make it all work. And while I desperately want him to succeed (both for Everton and for him - he seems like a good guy) there's absolutely no real evidence so far to suggest that he IS good enough - despite the masterful PR job done by Dave Whelan.

I honestly don't know how you reach that conclusion given the weight of evidence. The feller revolutionised one club (the fruits of which are being reaped today) and became the most successful manger in his other club's history.

Besides the relegation - which many great mangers have experienced - I can't see your argument about whether he's good enough.

 

[bicycleheader]

You don't dominate games and draw 0-0. Poncing about with the ball means jack ****.

Both those sentences mean jack**** I think. Just an easy phrase to throw out to criticise the style of play some people thought we would play.

In that game we got the ball forward quickly plenty of times with passes into Jelly/Kones feet but nothing came of it. We got the ball wide plenty but nothing came of it. We also passed the ball around the middle looking for openings but nothing came of it. There was even a few "long balls" into the corner and up to the strikers or Felli but nothing came of them..

There's a pattern there. To me, the movement, final pass and shooting/finishing is off. We are in no way just making tidy passes all game like some people fear.

As a person who has also watched Barca for over 20 years and now live here, I can tell you that you can definitely dominate games and draw 0-0.

 

[Tubey]

61% possession.

Scousealona indeed.

Pointless if it's in the wrong areas and nothing comes of it.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

I honestly don't know how you reach that conclusion given the weight of evidence. The feller revolutionised one club (the fruits of which are being reaped today) and became the most successful manger in his other club's history.

Besides the relegation - which many great mangers have experienced - I can't see argument about whether he's good enough.

"the most successful manager in the other club's history" involved winning 6 games mate - 4 of which were against lower league opposition. He also took that club down to the Championship after they'd been an established Prem club for 8 years (4 of those under him - 4 years in which the side under performed his predecessors, and for the most part just barely avoided the drop, before falling through).

Yes he did a good job at Swansea, but he wasn't managing at this level during that period.

I'm fully behind him in as much as I BADLY want him to succeed, in spite of my reservations, but let me put it this way - if he hadn't won the FA Cup (and as I said - an excellent achievement, but it's only 6 games, 4 vs lower league) there's no WAY he'd currently be our manager.

 

[bicycleheader]

this is the biggest problem with our play so far:

We're not creating chances. We're getting plenty of shots, but most of them are the likes of Barkley from 25 yards (hence such a small % on target), and we're just not getting shots off in solid goalscoring positions.

Yeah I think some of the shot/chance stats being quoted to make things seem more positive are not totally reflecting what we see in the games. We've not had a lot of clearcut chances really but hard to judge them overly harshly when faced with three teams bus parking more or less. Best chance today was probably Kevs header.

 

[Tony Hibbert's 3rd leg]

People are talking as if Martinez hasn't identified our weakness our first 3 games. Fact is there are few weaknesses in our play and that's hitting the target and taking chances. Martinez will obviously rectify this, it's only 3 games in and if that is our only stumbling block at the moment I'm not worried (yet). I wouldn't moan at these 3 results if we grab a few wins and go unbeaten for 10 games. Chelsea game will be a first real test.