Current Affairs The Labour Party

[zzr45]

The data is all there and publicly available so you'd think it would be easy enough to not be hoodwinked by fairy tales, and yet people still are. It's compounded by this bizarre belief that every Tom, [Poor language removed] or Harry knows how to fix the NHS.

Actually found the ‘motherlode’ report that’s used as the ‘proof’ of 130,000 deaths under the Tories as a direct result of austerity. Absolutely piffle if you read the report.

If you’ve had a diet of deep fried sausages and done precisely zero exercise over 50 years and peg out - it’s listed as a preventable death and added to that list.

Got absolutely smashed, driven home and driven into a woman with her pram killing both? Preventable death.

Died over an overdose at a nightclub? Preventable death.

It’s absolutely crap and has massively obscured what’s been going on for years.

 

[peteblue]

Shouldn't these last two pages be in a seperate NHS thread?

Of course, but then we’d have to talk about the absolute shambles of the Labour Party. The NHS has always been a good distraction for Labours failures......

 

[Cardano]

Of course, but then we’d have to talk about the absolute shambles of the Labour Party. The NHS has always been a good distraction for Labours failures......

Man, I don’t mean to be rude, but your petty point scoring against the Labour Party at any opportunity is a bit juvenile.

If you’re a Tory, then I guess the attitude from many of the left that all Conservatives are necessarily selfish and cruel with no empathy towards the less fortunate must be tiresome.

As a man of the left, I don’t subscribe to that view and try to discourage it from others. Although I think Conservatives are mistaken in their analysis, I recognise that it is possible to genuinely believe that right leaning economics produce the best outcomes for society, including for the least well off.

The constant jibes you throw at Labour are on the same level as the irrational antipathy for Tories from the left.

Can’t we try to discuss these things without the low blows?

 

[peteblue]

Man, I don’t mean to be rude, but your petty point scoring against the Labour Party at any opportunity is a bit juvenile.

If you’re a Tory, then I guess the attitude from many of the left that all Conservatives are necessarily selfish and cruel with no empathy towards the less fortunate must be tiresome.

As a man of the left, I don’t subscribe to that view and try to discourage it from others. Although I think Conservatives are mistaken in their analysis, I recognise that it is possible to genuinely believe that right leaning economics produce the best outcomes for society, including for the least well off.

The constant jibes you throw at Labour are on the same level as the irrational antipathy for Tories from the left.

Can’t we try to discuss these things without the low blows?

Of course we can....it won’t be as much fun, but yes we can....

 

[Cardano]

Of course we can....it won’t be as much fun, but yes we can....

A lot of the time it’s best to engage in political debate in an aggressively partisan fury, low blows an’ all, and it can be more fun that way.

But to be honest, as someone who is left-leaning, I won’t be able to see any fun in politics for about a decade or so.

 

[peteblue]

A lot of the time it’s best to engage in political debate in an aggressively partisan fury, low blows an’ all, and it can be more fun that way.

But to be honest, as someone who is left-leaning, I won’t be able to see any fun in politics for about a decade or so.

I can appreciate that, I’m thinking two decades...

 

[Paris]

I haven't actually.....I am just not giving him a response to an accusation which is totally untrue, and in my view uncalled for. If he wants to resort to personal abuse, then that is his right. I disagree with his original point but did not expect such a vitriolic reply. I will happily discuss with him his POV (on anti semitism in the LP) but did not feel that it was the right thread to do so. To use my family as a weapon against me is very ignorant from someone who doesn't know me at all.

Anyway...keep going with your posts...the humour and your take on life in general resonates with me.....Happy Xmas to you

If anything it was a polite response. How can any rational person believe that antisemitism does not exist, not just in the Labour Party - a denial that on its own is a sign of foil hat wearing idiocy - but in society as a whole?

No, not in this thread.....anti what? Fake news as you well know....just stop it please,

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The Tories have rightly had stick for some of the stunts they pulled during the campaign (and indeed the LibDems graphs and polls were also laughably amateurish), but boy do Labour come with some hyperbolic nonsense.

 

[degsy]

[/QUOTE="JimmyJeffers, post: 7501929, member: 29308"]
Keri Starmer ladies and gents. Knows nothing outside London.....

Prior to becoming an MP, Keir was a human rights lawyer. He co-founded Doughty Street Chambers in 1990, and conducted cases in a wide range of international courts, including the European Court of Human Rights.
Keir also worked to help eradicate the death penalty in a number of countries (particularly in the Caribbean and Africa) and continues to work closely on a voluntary basis with theDeath Penalty Project, most recently (October 2016) seeking to end the death penalty in Taiwan.
From 2002-2007 Keir worked as human rights advisor to the Policing Board in Northern Ireland, monitoring compliance of the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) with the Human Rights Act.
In 2008 Keir was appointed Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) and Head of the Crown Prosecution Service for England and Wales, a role he held until 2013.
After stepping down as DPP, Keir worked with Doreen Lawrence and victims’ groups to draft a victims’ law, which was included in Labour’s 2015 election manifesto. Keir continues to Chair the Advisory Board of LimeCulture, an organisation which supports a professional response to victims of sexual violence, and introduced a Private Members Bill (the Victims of Crime etc. Bill) in 2015.
Keir studied law at Leeds University and St Edmund Hall, Oxford, and has published several books including Three Pillars of Liberty: Political Rights and Freedoms in the UK (1996) and European Human Rights Law (1999).
[/QUOTE]
Yeah but his dad was a toolmaker, clocked on every day, spanners, lathes, milling machines, working to a thousand of an inch, proper labour job that. So he must be sound.
Mustn't he?

 

[degsy]

You may be able to talk bollocks to others - doesn't wash with me, pete.

You and I BOTH know that Thatcher's Government set about destroying the industrial base of the UK by going after the dock workers, the miners, the steel industry. As well as working on a 'managed decline' of Liverpool.

Perhaps you could describe then, this wonderful world in which we lived immediately prior to 1979.....

You both have points in your favour

I don't remember a Tory pay freeze in the early 70's. I do remember the Labour one in the mid-70's though.

I seem to remember one in the 60s. Wilson said one mans wage rise is another mans wage price rise
I also remember Heath guaranteed that...thinking it would never happen...if .
inflation went over a certain level pay rates would rise...in a short space of time my wages went up 20%
Then we had the oil crisis, 3 day week, we lost to the rs in the semi and went out in dubious circumstances to the greeks in the quarter final.
Bugner beat Cooper under dubious circumstances
Cassius had feet of clay and lost to frazier
Those early 70s we shight...(did I mention I got married in 72)

 

[Joey66]

You both have points in your favour

I seem to remember one in the 60s. Wilson said one mans wage rise is another mans wage price rise
I also remember Heath guaranteed that...thinking it would never happen...if .
inflation went over a certain level pay rates would rise...in a short space of time my wages went up 20%
Then we had the oil crisis, 3 day week, we lost to the rs in the semi and went out in dubious circumstances to the greeks in the quarter final.
Bugner beat Cooper under dubious circumstances
Cassius had feet of clay and lost to frazier
Those early 70s we shight...(did I mention I got married in 72)

lol
Memory lane there the 3 day week beat Macdonnels 4 day proposed week

 

[davek]

The Tories have rightly had stick for some of the stunts they pulled during the campaign (and indeed the LibDems graphs and polls were also laughably amateurish), but boy do Labour come with some hyperbolic nonsense.

Maybe, but there's a correlation between termination of benefits after fit for work tests and mortality in the immediate aftermath. In 2015 the government (which had fought tooth and nail to stop their publication) gave in to a FOI request and the data was damning (even though it was obviously not concluded by them that FFW tests was a causal factor to those deaths).

Duncan Smith was the driving force behind that and Work and Pensions secretary at the time.

His hands are all over that policy, so to reward him with the highest award in the land is, to say the least, 'insensitive'.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Maybe, but there's a correlation between termination of benefits after fit for work tests and mortality in the immediate aftermath. In 2015 the government (which had fought tooth and nail to stop their publication) gave in to a FOI request and the data was damning (even though it was obviously not concluded by them that there was a causal factor to those deaths).

Duncan Smith was the driving force behind that and Work and Pensions secretary at the time.

His hands are all over that policy, so to reward him with the highest award in the land is, to say the least, 'insensitive'.

For sure, especially when Bercow was denied the traditional reward for his post.

 

[peteblue]

The Tories have rightly had stick for some of the stunts they pulled during the campaign (and indeed the LibDems graphs and polls were also laughably amateurish), but boy do Labour come with some hyperbolic nonsense.

Labour can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but they cannot fool all of the people all of the time......they don’t even understand just how stupid they sound when they come out with this rubbish....they will be out of power for at least a decade and I expect probable two......

 

[peteblue]

For sure, especially when Bercow was denied the traditional reward for his post.

Cheered me up a treat when I heard that ........