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[tim cahill]

Jesus christ, mate. I think barbaric is a more suitable word.

Agreed. Snipers shooting kids for praying is pretty high on the evil scale imo.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Jesus christ, mate. I think barbaric is a more suitable word.

I won't profess to know much about the conflict to be honest, but what I have seen or read lends me to believe it, as with so many conflicts like this, is very far from a simple black/white, good/bad matter.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Agreed. Snipers shooting kids for praying is pretty high on the evil scale imo.

Of course, and I understand that (assuming you mean the shooting of the unarmed man before Christmas?) has been widely condemned in Israel itself?

 

[larrygobfiend]

I won't profess to know much about the conflict to be honest, but what I have seen or read lends me to believe it, as with so many conflicts like this, is very far from a simple black/white, good/bad matter.

Israel and Occupied Palestinian Territories Archives

Every year, Amnesty International evaluates the human rights situation in countries around the world. Stay up to date and learn about key human rights issues in Israel and Occupied Palestinian Territories

www.amnesty.org

 

[tim cahill]

Of course, and I understand that (assuming you mean the shooting of the unarmed man before Christmas?) has been widely condemned in Israel itself?

I’m talking about the videos that got leaked of unarmed children being shot by Israeli snipers while innocently walking and praying.

 

[tsubaki]

Quite possibly not, but there was quite a unique historical context behind that creation that doesn't really apply to any other religious group today. I mean it's not like the persecution of Jews doesn't have centuries of tradition that came to a horrendous head at the hands of the Nazis. The whole issue in Israel and Palestine seems nothing if not complex to me, and blurting out blunderheaded phrases like Dave has been in this thread does little to really reflect that. It's a topic that deserves better than cheap sloganism.

Indeed, though I’d point out that the Israeli state in its early years was far more tolerant and less openly discriminatory than Bibis is.

You are right about the use of Zionism though, it’s become so toxic a word that the moment anyone uses it in a political discussion alarm bells should be ringing.

 

[Khalekan]

The Israeli government is a disgusting murderous regime, that their money is reaching parliament is genuinely disturbing, however much of a roundabout way it creeps in. I'm afraid you have been forced to subtly move your argument around once met with reasonable counter points from Dave, I applaud and am enjoying the debate though

The term “anti semitism” has lost a lot of its currency as any criticism of the Israeli regime, no matter how justified, is immediately dismissed as being ‘anti semetic” and the person making the criticism is put on the defensive.

 

[Khalekan]

I don’t think it refers to all Jews. Just those that support the actions of the Israeli state.

This is what it has become......to be critical of the Israeli state is deemed to be critical of Jewry in general.

That way Netanyahu and his ilk easily wriggle off the hook of what is usually pretty supine international opinion anyway.

 

[magicjuan]

Ironically even that post is evidence of how the Israeli Government is treated in ways that no other government would be treated.

Would anyone accept a state being founded for and giving clear preference to (certain) members of a religious group over everyone else, including the indigenous population, nowadays?

You can do a comparison based on the desire for a Caliphate, I don't see much difference.

 

[davek]

Indeed, though I’d point out that the Israeli state in its early years was far more tolerant and less openly discriminatory than Bibis is.

You are right about the use of Zionism though, it’s become so toxic a word that the moment anyone uses it in a political discussion alarm bells should be ringing.

Which is all aimed at the brow beating of anyone using it into submission.

It's a very slippery slope you begin to slide down when you start to censor the use of words.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I’m talking about the videos that got leaked of unarmed children being shot by Israeli snipers while innocently walking and praying.

Ah ok, I wasn't aware of those and have no truck at all with people criticising the Israeli government, or indeed any government. My problem is using such an inflammatory term that can be taken to refer to an entire faith.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Which is all aimed at the brow beating of anyone using it into submission.

It's a very slippery slope you begin to slide down when you start to censor the use of words.

Why? There are very obvious words that have been used to denigrate people in racial terms over the years that have thankfully largely slipped out of the public lexicon. Language is ever evolving, so there's no reason to believe that using a word that clearly causes offence should not go the same way.

 

[davek]

Why? There are very obvious words that have been used to denigrate people in racial terms over the years that have thankfully largely slipped out of the public lexicon. Language is ever evolving, so there's no reason to believe that using a word that clearly causes offence should not go the same way.

But this is clearly not another of those examples. Zionism is not a race or religion, it's a political ideology. It encompasses Jews and gentiles.

Would you monitor the use of descriptive terms like Communist, Socialist or Fascist?

 

[tsubaki]

Which is all aimed at the brow beating of anyone using it into submission.

It's a very slippery slope you begin to slide down when you start to censor the use of words.

It is a slippery slope, but when a word had been taken over in the way that has people should really look at what effect using it has.

Take Joan Ryan for instance. Calling her a zionist might be within the bounds of what the word means, given her previous statements, but all most people hear is “it’s the left being anti-Semitic again”. She then repeats that and any argument dissolves into the usual mutual slurs.

When people don’t use an easy term to describe her stance, as they did over her initial response to the killings at the border fence, it is a much more effective tactic.

 

[orly]

In GOT world, Hatton has been banned for being High Maintenance. A 30 year ban, allowed to post, and within hours, posts stuff guaranteed to get right up the LP Mod's noses.

So he's @Butters then, just before the letter writing?