Current Affairs The 'incel movement'

[mill]

They didn’t match with @Martin Alvito did they?

I doubt it mate. They are feminists.

 

[Tubey]

I explained what I meant in some detail. I meant exactly that the whole time. This required some unpacking. You're trying to twist my words into something they are not. I am categorically not responsible for your choice not to comprehend the full story. That, sir, is a choice.

Nope.

Your words right here.

The equivalent female term for what you describe is 'feminist'.

I am not trying to 'twist' them. You said, flat out, that feminists are the female equivalent of incels.

You're all over the place trying to backtrack. "Oh I meant that word choice to cause controversy, ha ha ha"... no. You said a very clear, direct thing, that was incorrect. You chose those words; people simply said "wtf are you talking about" in response and you have no answer except to write essays about anything and everything except the actual thing you were wrong about.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with a criminal; but that criminal wasn't a feminist, the same as men beating women isn't because they're 'masculinists'. That's what it comes down to. There's no cause and effect, practically or legally.

 

[Tubey]

TBF I am not sure we are - these types seem to be rejecting reality in favour of a fantasy, probably precisely because the fantasy is unobtainable (and therefore doesn’t require them to compromise like everyone else has to).

I mean to take just “involuntary celibacy” as a concept - in most of the west nowadays this is something that (without a medical cause) is almost impossible without making an effective choice to do it.

Everything from brasses, nightclubs to Tinder exists almost everywhere, but to do that these men would have to leave their notions of who they are (invariably more honourable than the rest of us) behind.

Correct. It's basically narcissism. They don't see why they should put in the extra mile for something (note: not someone, as women are objects to these people) that should be grateful for their attention.

'Incel' is simply a bunch of cognitive and behavioural disorders given a label. I feel sorry for them in all honesty, as they should have received stronger intervention during their formative years and that is the fault of society.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Nope.

Your words right here.



I am not trying to 'twist' them. You said, flat out, that feminists are the female equivalent of incels.

You're all over the place trying to backtrack. "Oh I meant that word choice to cause controversy, ha ha ha"... no. You said a very clear, direct thing, that was incorrect. You chose those words; people simply said "wtf are you talking about" in response and you have no answer except to write essays about anything and everything except the actual thing you were wrong about.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with a criminal; but that criminal wasn't a feminist, the same as men beating women isn't because they're 'masculinists'. That's what it comes down to. There's no cause and effect, practically or legally.

I’m not sure how someone that was raised by scientists, is having such trouble understanding this to be honest.

 

[Prevenger17]

I just can't envisage a life where I'd be angry at "women" for any reason. And if I was ever angry at a woman, it wouldn't be the fact of her being a woman that is making me angry. What an unhealthy mindset to have

 

[cronullasharks]

I like to say Martin Alvito in my head how Michael Buffer would say it. Marrr-teeeeen Alveeeeto. Alvito

 

[COYBL25]

Tbh I know, I was being a little facetious. And it’s not just tinder. I had a conversation with a female friend earlier this week and she told me the experience of two women she knew in the last month alone that were truly harrowing.

Did they bump into Big Oil in a bar somewhere and he engaged them in a conversation about Xg and the merits of Alex Iwobi ?

 

[ForeverBlue92]

I agree with most of what you wrote. And I’m not sure how old you are so I don’t want to say you don’t understand, BUT, I think a lot of people don’t understand how much the “game” (for lack of a better term) has changed in regards to dating. It’s classic “don’t hate the player hate the game” territory we’re in- and that’s where I agree that self proclaimed incels are not helping themselves with misogyny and overt hatred of people who simply aren’t interested in them.

As to your last paragraph, I think we need to acknowledge that being sexless and perhaps a male virgin comes with a massive social stigma and that being unsuccessful women is laughed at in society which does contribute to the bad attitudes of self identified incels. Again, I am not trying to make excuses for people here who display downright hateful attitudes, but I do think their are larger issues at play that go beyond someone simply being an angry man venting online.

Said to my mate who's never off dating apps that I couldn't cope these days if I was young and single - tippy tappy talk online just doesn't interest me whatsoever nothing beats actually socialising with people at a bar or house party or whatever.

I was out on the ale a few weeks back after "freedom" day and was just casually watching a group of girls on a table across from us - just sat glued to their phones, constant selfie taking with their drinks to no doubt put on social media "showing" what a great time they were having and just genuinely looked bored stiff.

When I first met my missus we were rat arsed in town dancing and having a laugh when I slipped her my number lol thats the way it should be - society in general needs to put the technology down and get out and actually live life but as you say lads cant even offer to buy a girl a drink these days without being labelled all kinds.

 

[cronullasharks]

Did they bump into Big Oil in a bar somewhere and he engaged them in a conversation about Xg and the merits of Alex Iwobi ?

 

[Death]

I just can't envisage a life where I'd be angry at "women" for any reason. And if I was ever angry at a woman, it wouldn't be the fact of her being a woman that is making me angry. What an unhealthy mindset to have

Its quite easy to invisage. Its kinda like racism but for gender. There's a word I can't really put my finger on what the term is.

But yeah it's "there's just something about the colour of that persons skin that gets me bent out of shape'' but it's gender.

 

[Martin Alvito]

Nope.

Your words right here.



I am not trying to 'twist' them. You said, flat out, that feminists are the female equivalent of incels.

You're all over the place trying to backtrack. "Oh I meant that word choice to cause controversy, ha ha ha"... no. You said a very clear, direct thing, that was incorrect. You chose those words; people simply said "wtf are you talking about" in response and you have no answer except to write essays about anything and everything except the actual thing you were wrong about.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with a criminal; but that criminal wasn't a feminist, the same as men beating women isn't because they're 'masculinists'. That's what it comes down to. There's no cause and effect, practically or legally.

I'm not trying to backtrack and never was. You're just having a hard time accepting a hard fact. Let me put this one to you this way: the problem is that you're surrounded by liars. The media lies. Politicians lie. Teachers lie. Parents lie. Kids lie. George Carlin has a really good bit on that one, which is of course more profane that GoT will let me quote because it's George Carlin. You infer that I'm lying, because you're surrounded by liars. That's not my fault.

I said a very clear, direct thing with multiple meanings. You're flat out refusing to accept that the meaning I intended is the meaning I meant. You're determined to hang your interpretation of that statement on me. That's wrong. The English language is more flexible than that. I put things exactly the way I did to challenge your beliefs. Simple as. I've been addressing that head on the entire time. I have to write essays about all of these other things that have come up to support the point that I made, because you as a group are not starting from the presumption that I'm telling you the truth.

You're determined to make me admit that I was saying what you think I said. You're wrong, so I'm not doing it. You can't bully me into playing your social desirability game, no matter how hard you try. I won't do it. I have the strength to stand up to that, and point out that what you are doing is wrong, because of what I've been through.

Here's the problem with the attempts in this thread to define feminists as being able to self-identify: for other peoples' purposes, it doesn't work that way. What somebody says they are doesn't much matter, from the perspective of other people. What you think you are doesn't much matter to me either. That's between you and God. It's not my problem. From my perspective, you are your actions. Other people hang the labels on you as a consequence of those actions. What you are, from the perspective of other people, is the labels you call yourself that society will let pass. That's the whole point here.

Remember Sen. Bob Packwood from Oregon? He was a leading proponent of feminist issues in the Senate, until a sexual harassment scandal laid him low. Before that happened, he could get away with calling himself a feminist. His voting record supported the claim. After that came out, he couldn't because his actions revealed he wasn't.

Ever heard someone introduce someone else? They tell you that person's accolades. Senator, New York Times bestselling author, Nobel laureate, and so on. Other people determine the portions of someone's identity that you hear when that person is introduced. If I call myself any of those things, you'll call me delusional, unless I immediately go on to say that I made those claims precisely to make this exact point.

You're not understanding what I've been saying because you're interpreting what I've said through the lens of your own experiences with liars, rather than setting aside your preconceptions and really listening to the words that I've used. I'm challenging you to set aside those preconceptions, read what I said in sequence, and try telling me that I'm lying after you do that.

There's a difference between interpreting things through the lens of your own experience, and using your experiences to guide and inform your thinking. What I've been saying the whole time is that I know, for a cold hard fact, that misandrists masquerade as feminists, and that this colors not just my perceptions of feminists generally because I've heard that perception from a bunch of other men along the way. I'm sitting here literally admitting my own prejudices with respect to feminists generally (namely, that there's a substantial probability that any self-identified feminist is in fact a misandrist), on the basis of my own experiences with the misandrists that masquerade as feminists, and you're castigating me for doing that. Think about that one for a second. I bet people aren't generally as honest as I've been with you throughout this discussion.

That ought to be a pretty strong signal to you that I've been telling you the truth the whole time.

 

[Tubey]

Good lord, I've finally met someone more boring than me.

 

[Martin Alvito]

I like to say Martin Alvito in my head how Michael Buffer would say it. Marrr-teeeeen Alveeeeto. Alvito

I had a friend growing up that we used to call Michael Buffer, because he was always trying to start fights and cheer them on but never, ever would get into one.

 

[Martin Alvito]

Good lord, I've finally met someone more boring than me.

I think this is because people often find the truth boring. It's probably why we were bored so much in school. Physics is kinda dry, ya know?

 

[mill]

I said a very clear, direct thing with multiple meanings.

Erm.