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Plymouth shooting: police focus on ‘incel’ links as shop CCTV tape emerges
Exclusive: Jake Davison seen pacing around convenience store for more than five minutes on day before attack
Current Affairs The 'incel movement'
- Thread starter Daveysgingerlovechild
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brieverton
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How is Incel defined exactly? I assume it is not a valid psychiatric / psychological condition, though I guess that a high proportion of those falling into the category have other conditions that can be readily diagnosed.
It seems a very sweeping term though.
Would availing of the services of a sex surrogate /prostitute render someone otherwise considered incel, as non-incel?
Can females be classified as incel?
My hunch on this is that it's more acutely related to attitudes / conditions within the individuals themselves, rather than males being rejected by females at every turn. It seems to be their internal narrative, and a self-fulfilling prophesy that becomes their reality.
The desire for sex and companionship is normal and essential of course. I don't think failure to achieve such, let alone to yearn for it, should be demonised by society, as in every facet of life, one nutter tars everyone else by association, and this chap in Plymouth was clearly a nutter.
I have thought about this, as I live alone, that feels exaberated by lockdown and how difficult it is to meet people. I have had periods of abstinence that stretched into years, including over lockdown, and I'm not getting any younger. That felt imposed on me, but on other occasions due to the demands of career etc, and life circumstances, it was more of a personal choice. I'm an average looking guy, and probably average in every way, and the ladies I have had intimate relations with have been mostly average looking as well I'd say. There are always expections, I used to have a colleague at work that was painfully thin, with rotting teeth, and he had a very rich sex life, with ladies in some cases far above his grade.
It seems that more research is required into this.
It seems a very sweeping term though.
Would availing of the services of a sex surrogate /prostitute render someone otherwise considered incel, as non-incel?
Can females be classified as incel?
My hunch on this is that it's more acutely related to attitudes / conditions within the individuals themselves, rather than males being rejected by females at every turn. It seems to be their internal narrative, and a self-fulfilling prophesy that becomes their reality.
The desire for sex and companionship is normal and essential of course. I don't think failure to achieve such, let alone to yearn for it, should be demonised by society, as in every facet of life, one nutter tars everyone else by association, and this chap in Plymouth was clearly a nutter.
I have thought about this, as I live alone, that feels exaberated by lockdown and how difficult it is to meet people. I have had periods of abstinence that stretched into years, including over lockdown, and I'm not getting any younger. That felt imposed on me, but on other occasions due to the demands of career etc, and life circumstances, it was more of a personal choice. I'm an average looking guy, and probably average in every way, and the ladies I have had intimate relations with have been mostly average looking as well I'd say. There are always expections, I used to have a colleague at work that was painfully thin, with rotting teeth, and he had a very rich sex life, with ladies in some cases far above his grade.
It seems that more research is required into this.
To be fair, they have utterly zero redeeming factors. Yearning for companionship is one thing, suggesting women are sub-human and should be treated like livestock is something completely different.
Claiming its mental health and not dangerous radicalisation is offensive to the vast majority of people with legitimate mental health issues that aren’t a danger to anyone.
A woman couldn’t be an incel as incels are dedicated to hating women and sexually active men, I think a fair few of us had a long dry spell during the lockdowns which in my case made me go in the other direction and made me question if I can be arsed with the hassle of dating (especially after having my first post corona relationship go sour) when I can just have a more laid back life
Last thing is, the incel movement is very very closely linked with the extreme right wing Nazi stuff, so you’ll see a lot of them hate women, and BAME people, and gay people etc.
Martin Alvito
Player Valuation: £50m
Well, if you believe the film The Full Monty, the results for such men in Yorkshire are stripping and homosexuality. That's pure fiction, albeit a really good story.
brieverton
Player Valuation: £50m
It sounds like very extreme stuff then.
But surely that applies to a tiny minority of men who cannot for whatever reason, attract a female sexually? There cannot be tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands of men (and I assume the figures would be this high) in the country who cannot get laid and do not go around hating women, or following racist and Nazi ideology to such a point that they are a danger to society.
Surely this incel label would be outrageously offensive to them if it carries such extremist connotations? Do such people have "utterly zero redeeming factors" as you put it, or is it just the loons that carry firearms?
Last time I drove through Sheffield I realised it was actually a documentary. True story.
Joking aside, and it is anecdotal, but I've hot friends who settled in the Tyneside area. They have solid jobs but several of their neighbours and work colleagues kids were contemplating the armed forces solely because jobs were scarce. £16k a year seemed a good bet for them.
Martin Alvito
Player Valuation: £50m
The equivalent female term for what you describe is 'feminist'. I know this because I was married to one for twenty years, and was treated accordingly.
It is a mental health issue on both sides. The stigma on mental health issues results from the violence on the extremes for both genders. Most people with mental health issues aren't like that, as you point out, but they get lumped in with the dangerous apples in the bin because that's just how the pattern recognition that's part of the human condition works.
Martin Alvito
Player Valuation: £50m
There is also good research that suggests that good-looking people can get away with not working very hard. I haven't seen research showing that unattractive men and women tend to end up in the military, but I believe you on the basis of the other research that's out there and my own observations.
For instance, I had the privilege of visiting West Point during my senior year of college. I can tell you that the students at the private university I attended, which literally required a picture on the application, were substantially more physically attractive than the cadets.
A virgin who blames women for their inability to get women. Narcissistic, sociopathic misogynists who lack the ability to look at themselves and critique what the issue is.
In short, they think women should be all over them and who the hell do they think they are to say no.
Back in my day we just had nerds, goths and chavs as social groups.
Do incels become normal if they actually pull a root?
Comparing feminism to being an incel is completely different, for a start I don’t remember seeing feminists saying men should be put into “sex farms” or gunning down a bunch of random innocents, or calling for more lone Wolf style attacks.
Letting people justify utterly disgusting views and behaviour on mental health is taking any responsibility away from them and lumping stigma on a massive group of people who don’t deserve it.
This guy in Plymouth was a pathetic scumbag and it’s a shame he got the easy way out. He is, and was responsible for his actions, just as terrorists from Isis are responsible for their actions. Frankly I see no difference between the two as they both radicalised, dangerous rats willing to murder other humans over a misguided ideal.
They’re radicalised mate. They wear the term as a badge of pride in the same way a terrorist has a pride in their organisation.
People who just have trouble with the other sex are not incels. Men who believe they are entitled to sex from women and that every woman is whore who only wants to sleep with unbelievably attractive men (or Chads as they call them, assumably due to the name of a character in the anime Bleach) are incels
They are properly extremist and radicalised mate, there may be some good in some of them dependant on your view, but in my view someone that espouses their rhetoric is no better than a terrorist, and given the fact they are calling for more lone Wolf attacks, and the amount of incels that have done these kind of attacks worldwide I would suggest we should be treating them as terrorists.
Martin Alvito
Player Valuation: £50m
This depends on the feminist in question, which is my point. It's a spectrum. The most extreme of them are just as radicalized as the incels. They won't tell you that, but they'll act on it.
I'm not justifying extreme views here. I'm pointing them out, and also pointing out that human beings tend to be poor at discriminating between the most radicalized elements of a group and the rest. That one happens because of our natural fears of the most radicalized elements.
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