Current Affairs The General Election

[dholliday]

Read and learn.

How does draft manifesto compare with Labour's 1983 one?

How does Labour's draft general election manifesto compare with the plans it set out in 1983?

www.bbc.co.uk

What say you @Eggs ? We talked earlier about the need for Labour to appeal to the Centre more in order to win governance. is Corbyn's manifesto, as davek reckons, to the right of 1983's Labour manifesto? And if so, has it not gone far enough?

 

[Jebus_lives]

No. But that's the Labour 'supporting' approach this time around.

Us or them, nothing else. Treating it like a footy game. It's nonsense.

My vote has no impact. My seat is a pretty safe Labour one. And I can't put my vote behind a party I don't believe in.

Unfortunately it's Labour or Tory. Take your pick.

 

[Jebus_lives]

We can only play the game given to us. We can vote for a party willing to change that game. Is there one?

The Tories clearly have a problem with parliamentary democracy and the rule of law if that's what you're getting at.

 

[dholliday]

The Tories clearly have a problem with parliamentary democracy and the rule of law if that's what you're getting at.

By that logic, didn't New Labour also?

 

[abelard]

We can only play the game given to us. We can vote for a party willing to change that game. Is there one?

not after this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum

 

[Eggs]

What say you @Eggs ? We talked earlier about the need for Labour to appeal to the Centre more in order to win governance. is Corbyn's manifesto, as davek reckons, to the right of 1983's Labour manifesto? And if so, has it not gone far enough?

....i honestly think this is as much about personality as it as about policy. It’s a bit of a game. Corbyn comes with plenty of baggage his opponents can feast off. He’s not dynamic, he struggles with interviews. Other than his followers, folk don’t warm to him.

 

[catcherintherye]

Unbelievably naive.

The centre ground is exactly where the corporate controlled media and their hired prize fighters of the political commentariat tell you it is.

The type of policies Corbyn is advocating now would, in my youth, have been seen as to the right of Old Labour. Everything shifts over time, and its the balance in class forces which determines where the 'centre-ground' is drawn.

This was eloquently pointed out, that when Corbyn said even if they did everything in the manifesto on day 1, the level of spending would still be below France and Germany. Let that sink in a bit.

All these radical measures, the fact it would costs trillions of pounds apparently, andeven if everything was done instantly we'd still not be at the level of our two nearest neighbours. What does that tell you about where we are situated currently? Last time I checked neither France nor Germany were part of the Soviet bloc, they were both thriving capitalist countries, one with a right of centre, liberal banker running them, the other with the German equivalent of the Tories managing them.

 

[Aberblue]

So in other words, you're voting Tory

I think this shows why some people won't vote Labour. ANYTHING other than blind 100% acceptance of Labour and whatever they stand for is described as "Tory". The definition of "Tory" in this context encompases the Conservative Party, the Liberal Democrats, SNP, Plaid Cymru, a good part of the Parliamentary Labour Party, "Blairites", and supporters of indeendents.

 

[dholliday]

not after this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum

The people have spoken. We must respect that if we do indeed respect democracy.

 

[dholliday]

I think this shows why some people won't vote Labour. ANYTHING other than blind 100% acceptance of Labour and whatever they stand for is described as "Tory". The definition of "Tory" in this context encompases the Conservative Party, the Liberal Democrats, SNP, Plaid Cymru, a good part of the Parliamentary Labour Party, "Blairites", and supporters of indeendents.

To be fair I think @abelard just means less votes for Labour means more chance Tories will win. I don't think he means that the non-voter is a defacto Tory himself.

 

[catcherintherye]

what...investing in the NHS, free telecommunications for all and anti-war policies would've been seen as to the Right of old Labour?

Which Corbyn-policies specifically would be seen as rightwing 30 years ago?

What he means though mate, is we've had 40 years of essentially moving to the right, allowing the wealthy to get more wealthy largely at the expense of ordinary people that even though Corbyn's manifesto feels a radical move in a different direction, relative to where we were, or whether most equivalent countries are, we would still be spending a lot less money than we once did (and arguably need too) on public services.

 

[dholliday]

What he means though mate, is we've had 40 years of essentially moving to the right, allowing the wealthy to get more wealthy largely at the expense of ordinary people that even though Corbyn's manifesto feels a radical move in a different direction, relative to where we were, or whether most equivalent countries are, we would still be spending a lot less money than we once did (and arguably need too) on public services.

It must however be said that the 80's Old Labour didn't get close to winning elections to be allowed to spend that money. And the ones who were in power in the 70's...well...many folk who were around back then don't have grand memories of it, economically-speaking.

 

[catcherintherye]

It must however be said that the 80's Old Labour didn't get close to winning elections to be allowed to spend that money. And the ones who were in power in the 70's...well...many folk who were around back then don't have grand memories of it, economically-speaking.

The late 70's were a bit like now. An economic model was falling apart. It required something different.

The Labour governments of the 40's, 50's and 60's oversaw the biggest growth rates of the last 200 years in this country. We've not got close to that since.

 

[summerisle]

....i honestly think this is as much about personality as it as about policy. It’s a bit of a game. Corbyn comes with plenty of baggage his opponents can feast off. He’s not dynamic, he struggles with interviews.

I don't think he struggles with interviews, and at least he has the balls to do the important ones, unlike wastrel Johnson.
You think Johnson has no baggage, excuse me for laughing.

 

[OnlyBlueWillDo]

What say you @Eggs ? We talked earlier about the need for Labour to appeal to the Centre more in order to win governance. is Corbyn's manifesto, as davek reckons, to the right of 1983's Labour manifesto? And if so, has it not gone far enough?

Labour lost this election by turning their back on 5m of their voters that voted leave.

Had brexit been dealt with I truly believe Labour had every chance of gaining power with their manifesto, people have endured years of hardship under the Tories and want change.