Current Affairs The General Election

[dholliday]

Anything is possible. We live in a time of instant reaction, instant social media likes and retweets and like Terry Pratchett once said - “A lie can run round the world before the truth has got its boots on.” You would like to think that the health of a 4 year old child wouldn't be used to score political points but here we are just a few days after a mans murder was used for the very same thing despite his Dad asking for the opposite.

Like I said above it's all rotten to the core. We report first and find out the facts later.

The modern test-case for that was the tragic young migrant boy who drowned near the coast. A photo of him lying facedown in the sand did the rounds at the height of the refugee crisis of Autumn 2015.

 

[mightymoyes]

I do, but all I'd point out is that there is a sizeable difference between some clown like Bastani doing it on Twitter to try to benefit Labour and the state broadcaster doing it on behalf of the government during an election. For a start, at the moment people still trust the BBC to report honestly - something that will change really quickly if Johnson wins and then things get worse (which is what nearly every serious economic forecast says).

I doubt anyone under the age of about 35 trusts a word the BBC says anymore

 

[tsubaki]

Yep.

free internet
free childcare
free University
WASPI refunds
bumper public sector payrises
nationalisation of key industries

all "funded by the rich" (who of course are too stupid to move their money elsewhere). The reality is that it would be funded by the public via a huge expansion of public debt, which would turn Britian into the next Greece or Argentina. And don't forget he wants to eventually cut the working week to 30hrs also LOL

It's every bit as extreme as Labour's 1983 manifesto, and so far removed from the world we live in.

The problem you have there is that at least two of those (and probably a third) are going to result in more public debt if they aren't brought back under government control. "Free university" (which in actuality is free tuition fees, a situation which used to exist up until 1998) has resulted in £121 billion of debt already. The investment required for key industries (in reality this is water, rail and electricity) to be modernised is going to come from the state; the difference between the two parties platforms is whether the state gets the return (and gets to control costs) or not.

Finally "free internet" - or at least the rollout of full fibre broadband - is also going to need the state to back it once it gets beyond the point where it makes economic sense for the companies to do it themselves.

 

[dholliday]

...sincere or not sincere, voters don’t like Corbyn. Voters the Labour Party need to attract won’t vote Labour because of Corbyn. The party need to get clever. I’m not sure what ‘Tory light’ is, but if Tory light wins Labour the votes it needs to get into power, then that’s the way to go.

i’m 63 years of age and a life long Labour voter. I’d much prefer David Milliband or Andy Burnham to lead the Party than Corbyn. I suspect I’m not alone in thinking that way.

Tory-lite is thought of as New Labour (moving more to the political centre, rather than the Left).

 

[tsubaki]

...sincere or not sincere, voters don’t like Corbyn. Voters the Labour Party need to attract won’t vote Labour because of Corbyn. The party need to get clever. I’m not sure what ‘Tory light’ is, but if Tory light wins Labour the votes it needs to get into power, then that’s the way to go.

i’m 63 years of age and a life long Labour voter. I’d much prefer David Milliband or Andy Burnham to lead the Party than Corbyn. I suspect I’m not alone in thinking that way.

Neither of them passed the character test, l think. My thoughts on Miliband has already been stated, but Burnham seemed to have concluded that because he made a mess of the leadership election that it would be the only chance he'd ever get and so went off to Manchester when the opportunity presented itself. If he had carried on with what he had been doing (Shadow HS), he'd probably have been Shadow HS instead of Abbott in 2017 and the result might have been better than it was (and if it didn't, he'd have been in a much better position to be the next leader).

If I had to pick someone from the centre or right now as the next leader, I would pick Starmer who actually has engaged with the membership, engaged with the leadership, worked at developing policy and changing it where necessary and basically done what decent politicians should do. He turned up to a recent fundraiser at our CLP (though I didn't go) and was by all accounts a really nice bloke.

He still would be absolutely monstered by the media, though. That is what we should all remember.

 

[summerisle]

The absolute state of this, Bob Dylan should sue.

 

[dannyboy]

The problem you have there is that at least two of those (and probably a third) are going to result in more public debt if they aren't brought back under government control. "Free university" (which in actuality is free tuition fees, a situation which used to exist up until 1998) has resulted in £121 billion of debt already. The investment required for key industries (in reality this is water, rail and electricity) to be modernised is going to come from the state; the difference between the two parties platforms is whether the state gets the return (and gets to control costs) or not.

Finally "free internet" - or at least the rollout of full fibre broadband - is also going to need the state to back it once it gets beyond the point where it makes economic sense for the companies to do it themselves.

I´ve just spent the weekend in Communist Luxembourg and they´re about to roll free public transport for all in a month´s time. They also had excellent free Wifi all around the city which worked whenever I needed it to. No idea if it´s that good all the time, can only speak for how much it benefited me.

Wonder if their citizens were as up in arms about these investments as some of ours are.

 

[Jib in lad]

Boris Johnson's book depicts Jews as controlling the media

The 2004 novel Seventy Two Virgins, written by the Tory leader, is full of questionable portrayals of ethnic minorities

t.co

 

[Eggs]

Tory-lite is thought of as New Labour (moving more to the political centre, rather than the Left).

...I assumed that. Labour need to be smart. The Tories are lurching to the right. The policies are largely popular (especially had they mainly stuck to their last manifesto on nationalisation and not added Broadband et al), they need somebody smart to lead the Party. Somebody not taking the ridiculous stance on Brexit, somebody able to go head to head with Johnson and political commentators.

 

[dholliday]

I´ve just spent the weekend in Communist Luxembourg and they´re about to roll free public transport for all in a month´s time. They also had excellent free Wifi all around the city which worked whenever I needed it to. No idea if it´s that good all the time, can only speak for how much it benefited me.

Wonder if their citizens were as up in arms about these investments as some of ours are.

But Luxemburg has a population of only about 70 people, mate.

 

[dannyboy]

...I assumed that. Labour need to be smart. The Tories are lurching to the right. The policies are largely popular (especially had they mainly stuck to their last manifesto on nationalisation and not added Broadband et al), they need somebody smart to lead the Party. Somebody not taking the ridiculous stance on Brexit, somebody able to go head to head with Johnson and political commentators.

What would your Brexit stance be?

 

[abelard]

Neither of them passed the character test, l think. My thoughts on Miliband has already been stated, but Burnham seemed to have concluded that because he made a mess of the leadership election that it would be the only chance he'd ever get and so went off to Manchester when the opportunity presented itself. If he had carried on with what he had been doing (Shadow HS), he'd probably have been Shadow HS instead of Abbott in 2017 and the result might have been better than it was (and if it didn't, he'd have been in a much better position to be the next leader).

If I had to pick someone from the centre or right now as the next leader, I would pick Starmer who actually has engaged with the membership, engaged with the leadership, worked at developing policy and changing it where necessary and basically done what decent politicians should do. He turned up to a recent fundraiser at our CLP (though I didn't go) and was by all accounts a really nice bloke.

He still would be absolutely monstered by the media, though. That is what we should all remember.

I would back Starmer if the manifesto stayed mostly the same, with some tweaks (the four day week is likely an idea whose time has not yet come, for instance).

But do you not worry he would project as even more aloof delicate smarter-than-thou Londoner than Corbyn does to Labour Leave constituencies?

 

[dannyboy]

But Luxemburg has a population of only about 70 people, mate.

Ah yes, the same argument given by Republicans in America as to why Europe can have universal health care but they can´t. Good company you´re keeping.

 

[dholliday]

...I assumed that. Labour need to be smart. The Tories are lurching to the right. The policies are largely popular (especially had they mainly stuck to their last manifesto on nationalisation and not added Broadband et al), they need somebody smart to lead the Party. Somebody not taking the ridiculous stance on Brexit, somebody able to go head to head with Johnson and political commentators.

I actually think Corbyn's stance on Brexit is smart. It's one of the reasons why my vote would go Labour. He's effectively allowing the people's vote everyone was apparently clamouring for.

 

[evilwebby]

The problem you have there is that at least two of those (and probably a third) are going to result in more public debt if they aren't brought back under government control. "Free university" (which in actuality is free tuition fees, a situation which used to exist up until 1998) has resulted in £121 billion of debt already. The investment required for key industries (in reality this is water, rail and electricity) to be modernised is going to come from the state; the difference between the two parties platforms is whether the state gets the return (and gets to control costs) or not.

Finally "free internet" - or at least the rollout of full fibre broadband - is also going to need the state to back it once it gets beyond the point where it makes economic sense for the companies to do it themselves.

What total nonsense. We already have excellent broadband coverage in this country provided at very reasonable prices. The problem with Corbyn's policy is that its solving a problem that nobody percieves is a problem.

As for student debt, at least that dies when the person dies. National debt is rolled down to future generations. A nice little nestegg for for our children, I'm sure you'll agree.