Current Affairs The General Election

[JimmyJeffers]

No mate I'm just a normal man who is very comfortable financially and who personally doesn't feel the effects of a Tory government. Sadly I'm close to many who do feel the effects. You see despite what people will tell you not everybody has the same opportunities in life and therefore they aren't to be looked down on.

At the end of the day people are free to vote for whoever they want, free to read whatever paper they want and free to type out posts here on this very forum. You are also free to put your own self interests ahead of others every single time which is exactly what has been going on for the past nine years and will continue to happen when the country inevitably votes for Boris Johnson in the next few days.

Every now and then we get to rant about politics and look a bit like a nutter when we do so. In a few days it will come and go and political talk will make way for other headlines as always. Life will go on and the rich will get richer and the country will continue to be full of small minded bellends because nothing really ever changes.

 

[Toast]

No mate I'm just a normal man who is very comfortable financially and who personally doesn't feel the effects of a Tory government. Sadly I'm close to many who do feel the effects. You see despite what people will tell you not everybody has the same opportunities in life and therefore they aren't to be looked down on.

At the end of the day people are free to vote for whoever they want, free to read whatever paper they want and free to type out posts here on this very forum. You are also free to put your own self interests ahead of others every single time which is exactly what has been going on for the past nine years and will continue to happen when the country inevitably votes for Boris Johnson in the next few days.

Every now and then we get to rant about politics and look a bit like a nutter when we do so. In a few days it will come and go and political talk will make way for other headlines as always. Life will go on and the rich will get richer and the country will continue to be full of small minded bellends because nothing really ever changes.

Great post this btw.

 

[dholliday]

Nailed on. We have had them on here. I just dont trust anyone or anything any more. Audiences on political debates, callers to radio phones ins, the truth behind tweets and links and stuff.
Nothing, until something shows some concrete.

my ex from around 2004-5 worked for a conservative thinktank. She would write-up ostensibly liberal-minded studies but which on further analysis more promoted the conservative cause. This would then be released to the media. She felt very off about it and quit (it was a lucrative job, to be fair...but her sound morals won out in the end).

So this was before the age of social media...now when I see a study purporting to be saying this or that, I look at the organisation behind it (and often you have to look at the organisation behind them) to get some kind of picture what their agenda is.

Sadly, almost everything has an agenda. I'd love to have some truly neutral analysis of things. I hear Financial Times are apparently good for that, but they have a strict paywall.

 

[edge]

Channel 4 right now.

Brexit party councillor bang in trouble.

just seen that, i am one of the football lads, soft get was about 56 or something, plank of the highest order ,

 

[Big_nev]

Yeah, thats what I was saying since what seems months ago.

Thing is, all sides do it. Gonna get pelters for this, but in the spirit of the exchange, (social media/manipulation) ask yourself honestly, would you fall off your stool if that photo in Leeds hospital was in some way leaked/staged? Its a terrible thing to suggest, and I feel a bit grubby even putting it up as a discussion point, but hopefully you get the point I am painfully making.

Anything is possible. We live in a time of instant reaction, instant social media likes and retweets and like Terry Pratchett once said - “A lie can run round the world before the truth has got its boots on.” You would like to think that the health of a 4 year old child wouldn't be used to score political points but here we are just a few days after a mans murder was used for the very same thing despite his Dad asking for the opposite.

Like I said above it's all rotten to the core. We report first and find out the facts later.

 

[tsubaki]

Yeah, thats what I was saying since what seems months ago.

Thing is, all sides do it. Gonna get pelters for this, but in the spirit of the exchange, (social media/manipulation) ask yourself honestly, would you fall off your stool if that photo in Leeds hospital was in some way leaked/staged? Its a terrible thing to suggest, and I feel a bit grubby even putting it up as a discussion point, but hopefully you get the point I am painfully making.

I do, but all I'd point out is that there is a sizeable difference between some clown like Bastani doing it on Twitter to try to benefit Labour and the state broadcaster doing it on behalf of the government during an election. For a start, at the moment people still trust the BBC to report honestly - something that will change really quickly if Johnson wins and then things get worse (which is what nearly every serious economic forecast says).

 

[Toast]

just seen that, i am one of the football lads, soft get was about 56 or something, plank of the highest order ,

He's banned from the match as well.
Absolute disaster for them that secret footage.

 

[Jebus_lives]

I posted it a while back. For context, I am not defending Johnson. The point I am making is that instant reactions to online stuff can bite you on the arse.

Dave said he "pocketed the phone to conceal evidence". The fact is, that after a rubbish "interview", Johnson gave the phone back and apologised.

Ah I see. Yes I agree. The instant reaction, especially to developing incidents, is particularly dangerous.

I must admit I was rather puzzled by some of the instant reaction to the terrorist shooting.

Back on topic, the interview with Johnson is an absolute car crash.

 

[dholliday]

All of it. It's complete and utter fluff. This ''get Brexit done'' and then we can fix our country stuff that is being thrown about. It's disingenuous at best and misleading and cruel at worst.

We've had NINE long years of this government in power. NINE years of austerity that's left our key services in the horrendous state they are currently in. We had a hate fuelled campaign with a 350m lie plastered everywhere in order to brain wash the masses in to thinking it's Europe that's been responsible this whole time.

Now here you are rolling up as a thinking adult and typing out that leaving Europe will mean we can reduce wait times in hospitals. Just sit back for a second and reflect on how fcking stupid that line of thinking is. You've been taken in by utter nonsense and lies but not only that you are here pedalling those lies.

''Take back control''

''Get Brexit done''

''Break the deadlock''

How as an adult with critical thinking skills and the power of deduction can you possible be taken in by slogans such as those? We have had a decade to fund the NHS, a decade to tackle people living on the streets, child poverty, overcrowded classrooms, over worked NHS staff, cuts to police, the closing of police stations and much more yet here we are on the very cusp of pretending that Brexit will fix it all.

Shame on you, shame on anybody voting conservative and shame on the media for brain washing the masses.

Lots to pick apart here. It's a very emotive post, but there's no concrete facts.

Let's start with the 350m figure. Why do you think it was a lie?

In 2018 the UK government paid £13 billion to the EU budget, and EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4 billion. So the UK’s ‘net contribution’ was estimated at nearly £9 billion. Each year the UK gets a discount on its contributions to the EU—the ‘rebate’—worth about £4 billion last year. Without it the UK would have been liable for £17 billion in contributions.

What's 17b divided by 52 weeks? About 325m. We can assume 2016 was more than the 2017 figure, so the 350m red bus number (as gross) was actually fairly accurate.

Now whether post-Brexit that saved money will really be put to positive NHS use is another matter...Zukunftsmusik as we say in Germany, meaning it's in the future so we cannot say what will happen.

Let's do this particular one first, before we go on your other points.

 

[Blues Harp]

...I don’t know what his strategy would be, but it can’t be any worst than this bumbler. David Milliband is as sharp as a tack, voters would’ve taken to him or Andy Burnham in charge. Statesmanlike, sincere and smart. Like it or not, Corbyn is unpopular outside of voters who will vote Labour anyway.

Back to agreeing with austerity policies then? So is Corbyn not sincere mate? no real change in this country for the people who have been left in the gutter by years of neoliberal policies aided and abetted by people such as David Milliband. He is Tory light....

 

[roydo]

Lots to pick apart here. It's a very emotive post, but there's no concrete facts.

Let's start with the 350m figure. Why do you think it was a lie?

In 2018 the UK government paid £13 billion to the EU budget, and EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4 billion. So the UK’s ‘net contribution’ was estimated at nearly £9 billion. Each year the UK gets a discount on its contributions to the EU—the ‘rebate’—worth about £4 billion last year. Without it the UK would have been liable for £17 billion in contributions.

What's 17b divided by 52 weeks? About 325m. We can assume 2016 was more than the 2017 figure, so the 350m red bus number (as gross) was actually fairly accurate.

Now whether post-Brexit that saved money will really be put to positive NHS use is another matter...Zukunftsmusik as we say in Germany, meaning it's in the future so we cannot say what will happen.

Let's do this particular one first, before we go on your other points.

With respect mate, the UK long ago consigned the £350m a week to the NHS to the dustbin. There is an EU thread (just) still open of you want to have a chat in there. We have an election in 2 sleeps, so lets keep it on there eh?

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Let me guess, if I click ‘show ignored content’ I’m going to see some patronising, contrary posts.

 

[tsubaki]

...I don’t know what his strategy would be, but it can’t be any worst than this bumbler. David Milliband is as sharp as a tack, voters would’ve taken to him or Andy Burnham in charge. Statesmanlike, sincere and smart. Like it or not, Corbyn is unpopular outside of voters who will vote Labour anyway.

Not to rehash a previous discussion, but there really isn't any evidence to say that David Miliband would have been the answer here.

He is a very clever bloke but did little as a cabinet minister, little as Foreign Secretary, ragequit after his brother beat him rather than spend time understanding why and developing and promoting his brand of politics, and then left to become the (more than) half-a-million pound a year head of a charity. Then there is his time with Sland.

 

[dholliday]

With respect mate, the UK long ago consigned the £350m a week to the NHS to the dustbin. There is an EU thread (just) still open of you want to have a chat in there. We have an election in 2 sleeps, so lets keep it on there eh?

to be fair mate it is relevant to the GE as it's about the perceived untrustworthiness of Boris Johnson and his Brexit mates (which form the cabinet which people will decide in two days if they should remain in power to action said Brexit).

It's being touted as the Brexit Election after all...

I'm just demonstrating, with hard facts, that we shouldn't assign untrustworthiness to Boris for this GE based on that red bus figure. It's pretty relevant.

But I respect your call, of course

 

[Eggs]

Back to agreeing with austerity policies then? So is Corbyn not sincere mate? no real change in this country for the people who have been left in the gutter by years of neoliberal policies aided and abetted by people such as David Milliband. He is Tory light....

...sincere or not sincere, voters don’t like Corbyn. Voters the Labour Party need to attract won’t vote Labour because of Corbyn. The party need to get clever. I’m not sure what ‘Tory light’ is, but if Tory light wins Labour the votes it needs to get into power, then that’s the way to go.

i’m 63 years of age and a life long Labour voter. I’d much prefer David Milliband or Andy Burnham to lead the Party than Corbyn. I suspect I’m not alone in thinking that way.