Current Affairs The General Election

[catcherintherye]

I don't think this benefits Corbyn. That's actually the problem he has.

How so? In the long term absolutely Labour need to win voters back. However short term I'd be a little concerned if I were the Conservatives relying on this demographic in December.

I make you right though, a majority of around 20 looks about where I'd have it. In all honesty an election where each party won't be overly thrilled.

 

[Tubey]

How so? In the long term absolutely Labour need to win voters back. However short term I'd be a little concerned if I were the Conservatives relying on this demographic in December.

I make you right though, a majority of around 20 looks about where I'd have it. In all honesty an election where each party won't be overly thrilled.

I don't think Labour are the party of the working class now. They're the party for the marginalised in society and the ideological far left, but the working class people I know - including myself - see no appeal in Corbyn whatsoever.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Study economic history. Argentina used to have an economy that was the envy of the world. Today it's a basket case.

Britain itself used to be the largest economy in the world. By the 1970s we had to go to the IMF for a bail out, and it's only through the economic reform of the 1980s that enabled the UK to reclaim its' position as a leading world economy.

They didn't win two world wars though did they!

 

[Alan Whittle]

Thats the one thing that probably concerns the tories at this stage. Cold day, older voters, increasingly working class vote base, who think it's in the bag and don't bother to turn out.

I was thinking this yesterday. I live in a fairly safe tory seat but which is surrounded by Tory / Lib Dem marginals. We usually never see anyone but have been leafleted four times in the last week by the Tories (each time a different leaflet) urging voters to see how important their vote is and what a difference it could make. They are desperate to get the vote out.

 

[Tubey]

They didn't win two world wars though did they!

It was actually the wars that sunk Britain as a major power. Both pretty much bankrupted us.

 

[davek]

I don't think Labour are the party of the working class now. They're the party for the marginalised in society and the ideological far left, but the working class people I know - including myself - see no appeal in Corbyn whatsoever.

The only level that analysis works on is when the Brexit issue is thrown in. Take that out and your point is a poor one. And even the Brexit stuff is the LP PLPs problem not the LP leadership or the TU movement that backs the leadership up.

The Tories have got a once only loan of votes and will, after a few years of the firestorm to come economically, be destroyed.

 

[catcherintherye]

I don't think Labour are the party of the working class now. They're the party for the marginalised in society and the ideological far left, but the working class people I know - including myself - see no appeal in Corbyn whatsoever.

Who do you consider the working class to be? And do you think this trend occurred before Corbyn?

 

[Jebus_lives]

It was actually the wars that sunk Britain as a major power. Both pretty much bankrupted us.

And yet we're still the 5th largest economy in the world and hold all the cards in any trade negotiation with the EU. Rule Britannia!

 

[catcherintherye]

I was thinking this yesterday. I live in a fairly safe tory seat but which is surrounded by Tory / Lib Dem marginals. We usually never see anyone but have been leafleted four times in the last week by the Tories (each time a different leaflet) urging voters to see how important their vote is and what a difference it could make. They are desperate to get the vote out.

Yes I am getting this sense too Alan.

At the last election, Labour leavers and Con remainers were a similar proportion. In terms of media scrutiny though, you'd hardly know it, as one group gets almost continual attention as it's a great story, but the other little is written about.

I think the Cons are holding voters who are remain more. I'll be frank, I think Corbyn's agenda is more harder to swallow for them, than a lot of the "borrow and spend" agenda is from Johnson (as well as the infamous 350 million a day into the NHS). However there is a real risk that they just won't show up to vote, or potentially feel the need to protest.

I would imagine, quite a few of them feel a bit let down by the Conservatives rhetoric over traitors, remoaners, surrender act etc.

The wider point as well, is it's hard for me to get my head around this stomping 15+ point victory when they appear frantic in seats they've held for decades. Something doesn't quite compute. The picture is quite unclear.

 

[Tubey]

Who do you consider the working class to be? And do you think this trend occurred before Corbyn?

People who are working. They don't see themselves as 'poor'. They are concerned with their jobs, they have aspiration, they want a safety net for the vulnerable but they don't want everything gifted to them at the expense of themselves. They want political and economical evolution, not revolution.

As for whether it started before Corbyn, an argument could certainly be made for that, but he's undoubtedly exacerbated it an awful lot.

I'm not saying the Tories are suddenly the party of the working class - of course they aren't. I'm saying the working class are now in a political wilderness, represented by no one, having to make the choice between right wing elitists and left wing ideologists. The problem Labour have is, given that choice, more and more will go with Johnson over Corbyn if they had a gun to their head as he represents the lesser risk to their lives and aspirations.

Corbyn/Momentum people have to ask themselves a hard question and look honestly for the answers - why are you losing? Why are you still the underdog after a decade of Tory austerity and incompetence? The answer isn't "the media" - it just isn't. Loads of people I know don't even know what a Kuenssberg is and care even less about what she tweets - it's what Corbyn and Momentum say and do that is so offputting.

 

[Alan Whittle]

Who do you consider the working class to be? And do you think this trend occurred before Corbyn?

It's an interesting question. I remember Neil Kinnock explain a conversation he had with (I think) Joe Gormley. The miners were the best paid that they had ever been with collective bargaining established. Most had decent cars, many were buying their own houses and having regular foreign holidays. Unthinkable for the historic working classes. Gormley said to Kinnock ".....and you want to tell them, Brothers, let me take you away from all this."
Corbyn's ideals, noble as they are, may turn off some working class voters simply because they appear to demonise the aspiration of the individual.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

'Serfs' is Dave's latest missive lol

I wonder what Dave would be known as from the Tory equivalent.

 

[hirons11]

...I don’t know what his strategy would be, but it can’t be any worst than this bumbler. David Milliband is as sharp as a tack, voters would’ve taken to him or Andy Burnham in charge. Statesmanlike, sincere and smart. Like it or not, Corbyn is unpopular outside of voters who will vote Labour anyway.

I think he's even unpoular with a section of labour supporters who will vote for labour anyway.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I wonder what Dave would be known as from the Tory equivalent.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

It's an interesting question. I remember Neil Kinnock explain a conversation he had with (I think) Joe Gormley. The miners were the best paid that they had ever been with collective bargaining established. Most had decent cars, many were buying their own houses and having regular foreign holidays. Unthinkable for the historic working classes. Gormley said to Kinnock ".....and you want to tell them, Brothers, let me take you away from all this."
Corbyn's ideals, noble as they are, may turn off some working class voters simply because they appear to demonise the aspiration of the individual.

Good point this mate. I was doing a job the other day and got talking to the fella and his wife, they were saying that they had always voted Labour, but they actually see the Tories as the party who they would most benefit under, and it's now a dilemma for them.