Current Affairs The General Election

[spectateur]

Mate, look at the last 50 years. Tony Blair is the only lab leader to have won an election since 1974. Ask yourself if he did that by positioning himself in the middle ground or on the firm left.

Tony Blair, son of Thatcher.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

That’s a really poor thing to say mate.

Do you know anyone who works in the NHS?

They’ll all tell you the same. It’s as bad as it’s ever been.

Where I work we’re constantly seeing doctors and teachers taking jobs because they want to get out of the NHS/education sector due to the stress they’re constantly put under.

My wife has worked in the NHS for around 15 years, so I get a daily dose of grumbling about it. Some of that may be solved by more money, but there's an awful lot that is simply due to it being badly run. I've also consulted with the NHS a few times, and it's insanely frustrating.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I mean...

They actually believe it as well. The mind boggles.

 

[spectateur]

Dont think Johnson is trying to appeal to you mate. But as a person, you get the impression you could actually enjoy his company. Maybe not in reality, but since when have elections been about reality?

I'm sure that I could never enjoy the company of that archetypal tory. Arrogant bombastic loud mouth with the accent of the rich and privalidged.

 

[spectateur]

I could no longer give a crap... if the country wishes to become a Marxist state, then be my guest and I hope you enjoy it.....

A Marxist state, what on earth are you on about. Is that what you call a fair and even society.

 

[peteblue]

A Marxist state, what on earth are you on about. Is that what you call a fair and even society.

“Two of Britain's biggest power companies have shifted the ownership of their businesses offshore to protect against the threat of nationalisation by a Labour government.
National Grid and SSE, who together own the country's gas and electricity transmission networks, said they had started overseas holding companies in the wake of Jeremy Corbyn's plans to bring them under state ownership.”

and so it begins.....

 

[Deleted member 28206]

Tony Blair says neither the Tories or labour deserve to win.

No flies on this fella.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

“Two of Britain's biggest power companies have shifted the ownership of their businesses offshore to protect against the threat of nationalisation by a Labour government.
National Grid and SSE, who together own the country's gas and electricity transmission networks, said they had started overseas holding companies in the wake of Jeremy Corbyn's plans to bring them under state ownership.”

and so it begins.....

Come on Pete, you can't use that as an example and then completely ignore the huge number of examples of companies doing the same because of Brexit.

 

[evilwebby]

2009 - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/he...ue-to-effects-of-recession-managers-warn.html
2008 - https://www.theguardian.com/society/2008/oct/08/credit.crunch.nhs
2006 - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4899632.stm
2005 - https://www.theguardian.com/money/2005/dec/03/publicfinances.politics and http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4274610.stm

It's always in 'crisis'. Maybe the docs should stop calling wolf.

Brucie, I know you hold the funding NHS as sacrosanct, but the reality is that any model that provides a service that is essentially free of charge to the end user will always be oversubscribed and underfunded. That goes for all Public Services; roads will always be too crowded, the best schools will always be oversubscribed, there will always be less social housing that social tenants.. etc. The honest and grown up thing for the whole of society would be the admit that there is no such thing as a free lunch, and that is how the world is.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Brucie, I know you hold the funding NHS as sacrosanct, but the reality is that any model that provides a service that is essentially free of charge to the end user will always be oversubscribed and underfunded. That goes for all Public Services; roads will always be too crowded, the best schools will always be oversubscribed, there will always be less social housing that social tenants.. etc. The honest and grown up thing for the whole of society would be the admit that there is no such thing as a free lunch, and that is how the world is.

I think the NHS is a bit of a basket case to be honest, and whatever government we have, it will stumble from crisis to crisis. The usual retort is to cite the American system, which is utterly bonkers and it's an argument that kinda undermines the politicisation of the NHS, which is a major factor in its current state.

 

[peteblue]

Come on Pete, you can't use that as an example and then completely ignore the huge number of examples of companies doing the same because of Brexit.

In or out of the EU, Corbyn policies are chasing them away, and they are going in order to protect investors and the share price....so how much will he now need to nationalise them ?....

 

[Tubey]

My wife has worked in the NHS for around 15 years, so I get a daily dose of grumbling about it. Some of that may be solved by more money, but there's an awful lot that is simply due to it being badly run. I've also consulted with the NHS a few times, and it's insanely frustrating.

I've heard from good sources several horror stories about NHS mismanagement. Flushing millions upon millions away on completely avoidable things like basic contracts for essentials that are 500% over the market price.

 

[evilwebby]

I've heard from good sources several horror stories about NHS mismanagement. Flushing millions upon millions away on completely avoidable things like basic contracts for essentials that are 500% over the market price.

My friend works in IT defence contracting and his stories with the govt pretty much along the same lines. They have no absolutely concept of budgets, efficiencies, or how private business operates.

The solution, in my view, is not to strive for more efficiencies in government; it to strive for less government.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

“Two of Britain's biggest power companies have shifted the ownership of their businesses offshore to protect against the threat of nationalisation by a Labour government.
National Grid and SSE, who together own the country's gas and electricity transmission networks, said they had started overseas holding companies in the wake of Jeremy Corbyn's plans to bring them under state ownership.”

and so it begins.....

National Grid is American owned anyway, its been running the UK operation on shoe string, whilst investing and upgrading by billions in American infrastructure...

Good they can go, and hand back our national grid...

 

[Tubey]

My friend works in IT defence contracting and his stories with the govt pretty much along the same lines. They have no absolutely concept of budgets, efficiencies, or how private business operates.

The solution, in my view, is not to strive for more efficiencies in government; it to strive for less government.

It's not that they have no concept for it - it's worse. It's that they know but won't do anything about it, because the bureaucracy in getting anything changed is crazy. There's no tangible benefit to taking action to change it, because all it does is create more work and they get paid the same regardless. In the private sector, you have targets, profit margins, career advancement - it's not the same in the public sector; all targets are arbitrary numbers like waiting times etc.

The NHS is the sacred entity that can't be criticised or touched, so because of that you see nothing change. A contract agreed in the 90s will persist to this day with auto-renew and price increase clauses, simply because it's the way it's done.

It's the inherent danger in the nationalisation of anything. It is, in theory, a good idea - in practice, it often isn't.