Current Affairs The Far Right

[Ruairi77]

Freedom of speech though covers all speech no matter how vile or detestable it may be.

Limiting freedom of speech, even if right minded in its original intent, would open the door to any number of unintended circumstances.

I don't think it's legal to go in to a movie theatre and scream 'fire'. That's one limitation of free speech, spewing vile hate that incites violence should be another.

 

[Ruairi77]

How did it come to this? The situation pointed out above is pure comedy, if seen in a manner to ridicule the participants. Their version of Malcolm's disciplined men in serious suits is polo shirts and tiki torches? The trouble is that the comedy ends when somebody's dead, and somebody died. The racist pinheads gathered in one spot, then the Antifa headbangers showed up, right on schedule. Over Robert E. Lee's statue. It always starts with a statue or a flag. Tribal thinking erupts, the present trends toward identity politics follow their expected course and at the end, there's a dead person somewhere.

What do Antifa and the alt-right mob have in common? They both hate America. The alt-right mob marched mostly behind some kind of knockoff Nazi or fascist flag, and not the American flag. White, yes, but “nationalists”? They are not trying to “Make America great again” even in the Trumpian sense. They want it to be a different country. Antifa, of course, has no use for the American flag except to burn it. They also want this to be a different country. If they do carry a flag, its likely to be a familiar foreign one. Both groups should be labeled as Un-American. They deserve each other.

This sucks, and it's not going to get better anytime soon.

Sorry mate but this just smacks of trumps 'many sides' bull.
A nazi killed an American in broad daylight on Saturday. Stop conflating two groups like they are two sides of the same coin. The right wing bloviating of AM talk radio/fox news/various websites is coming to a boil and the actions of Antifa are trivial in comparison.

 

[mezzrow]

Sorry mate but this just smacks of trumps 'many sides' bull.
A nazi killed an American in broad daylight on Saturday. Stop conflating two groups like they are two sides of the same coin. The right wing bloviating of AM talk radio/fox news/various websites is coming to a boil and the actions of Antifa are trivial in comparison.

Would you favor Antifa (or something similar) shutting down all that right wing bloviating? Before it comes to a boil?

 

[Ruairi77]

Would you favor Antifa (or something similar) shutting down all that right wing bloviating? Before it comes to a boil?

no, not at all.
Did you disapprove of the French underground resistance to nazi Germany?
With out fascists there'd be no antifa, doesn't work the other way around.
This weekend Nazis killed an American and you and Trump are trying to spread blame.
The blame is with the nazis.

 

[SerenityNigh]

I don't think it's legal to go in to a movie theatre and scream 'fire'. That's one limitation of free speech, spewing vile hate that incites violence should be another.

The violence is clearly illegal; it's up to the participants to engage or disengage in violent/non-violent speech. I don't think that's entirely analogous to specific examples (i.e., fire in a crowded theatre) and even these seem to be punishable based on consequences. I would agree that if someone organized and incited a crowd to violence they should be legally culpable, but hateful speech in and of itself doesn't necessarily seem to fit this definition.

To me there's a clear distinction between how to you teach your Elementary school child to behave and respect others and what the law is intended (or capable) of executing. You can't simply put someone in jail for being a [I'll not write anything here on advice from Ray-Ray.]

 

[Ruairi77]

The violence is clearly illegal; it's up to the participants to engage or disengage in violent/non-violent speech. I don't think that's entirely analogous to specific examples (i.e., fire in a crowded theatre) and even these seem to be punishable based on consequences. I would agree that if someone organized and incited a crowd to violence they should be legally culpable, but hateful speech in and of itself doesn't necessarily seem to fit this definition.

To me there's a clear distinction between how to you teach your Elementary school child to behave and respect others and what the law is intended (or capable) of executing. You can't simply put someone in jail for being a [I'll not write anything here on advice from Ray-Ray.]

I'd agree with this. I just think there isn't a tight enough control over policing incitement to violence for fear of breaking first amendment rights.

 

[Hogwild]

I don't think it's legal to go in to a movie theatre and scream 'fire'. That's one limitation of free speech, spewing vile hate that incites violence should be another.

The trouble is who decides what is and is not vile hatred that invites violence. While it may seem like that should be easy to do, I promise it would not be.

Look, I completely agree with you that what has been reported in Virginia is awful and vile. There are other things though that some people may find hateful that spurs them to violence that many people may not find vile. Who makes that decision?

Freedom of speech is a tenant of our country. I despise many things I have heard before, but that does not mean people don't have the right to say them.

I also think it is very unfortunate that these idiots have gotten as much attention as they have. I fear the attention will only fuel them on. Kind of like the dumb----es at that Westboro Baptist Church. They got publicity for their stupidity and it egged them on to further lunacy.

 

[longers]

This era has the most insufferable centrists/moderates of my lifetime. Turning false equivalency into its own entire ideology.

 

[mezzrow]

no, not at all.
Did you disapprove of the French underground resistance to nazi Germany?
With out fascists there'd be no antifa, doesn't work the other way around.
This weekend Nazis killed an American and you and Trump are trying to spread blame.
The blame is with the nazis.

I see no parallel between the antifa folks and the French Underground. That is, unless you believe to your socks that Trump = Hitler and the Nazis aren't those Brians and Marks marching around with Tiki torches, they're the National Guard. If that's your position, I understand why you would make that analogy.

I disagree. In the world of antifa, fascists = whatever we're fighting today. The killer was an American too, an American Nazi pinhead, but still an American. American justice will deal with him, and will do so swiftly I hope. He's certainly not covered the cause in glory or made himself into Ohio's Horst Wessel. My view is that the first thing a postmodernist/nihilist antifa backed government would do would look exactly like fascism to most of the folks it gets done to.

There's no glory for anyone in this. There are no good guys. None. This is what tribalism always comes to. Time to watch some footy.

 

[Ruairi77]

The trouble is who decides what is and is not vile hatred that invites violence. While it may seem like that should be easy to do, I promise it would not be.

Look, I completely agree with you that what has been reported in Virginia is awful and vile. There are other things though that some people may find hateful that spurs them to violence that many people may not find vile. Who makes that decision?

Freedom of speech is a tenant of our country. I despise many things I have heard before, but that does not mean people don't have the right to say them.

I also think it is very unfortunate that these idiots have gotten as much attention as they have. I fear the attention will only fuel them on. Kind of like the dumb----es at that Westboro Baptist Church. They got publicity for their stupidity and it egged them on to further lunacy.

yea, I'm a naturalized citizen and the extent of the first amendment has taken a lot of getting used to.
It's hard to comprehend why the courts don't deem the likes of the KKK a hate group and therefore ban their gatherings and speeches.

 

[SerenityNigh]

Some kind of work by @YesYoureRacist on twitter unmasking the Charlottesville protestors. That will get attention, no doubt.

Direct link: https://twitter.com/YesYoureRacist

 

[Ruairi77]

I see no parallel between the antifa folks and the French Underground. That is, unless you believe to your socks that Trump = Hitler and the Nazis aren't those Brians and Marks marching around with Tiki torches, they're the National Guard. If that's your position, I understand why you would make that analogy.

I disagree. In the world of antifa, fascists = whatever we're fighting today. The killer was an American too, an American Nazi pinhead, but still an American. American justice will deal with him, and will do so swiftly I hope. He's certainly not covered the cause in glory or made himself into Ohio's Horst Wessel. My view is that the first thing a postmodernist/nihilist antifa backed government would do would look exactly like fascism to most of the folks it gets done to.

There's no glory for anyone in this. There are no good guys. None. This is what tribalism always comes to. Time to watch some footy.

The good guys are the ones standing up to the nazis. This is not multi layered stuff. The girl killed by nazis was a paralegal, not a violent revolutionary hell bent on anarchy. She was protesting right wing fascist hatred. She's a hero.
The problem here is with the right. For God sake man, nazis....

 

[Hogwild]

yea, I'm a naturalized citizen and the extent of the first amendment has taken a lot of getting used to.
It's hard to comprehend why the courts don't deem the likes of the KKK a hate group and therefore ban their gatherings and speeches.

I understand, the trouble would be where the line gets drawn.

I just can't fathom how people can harbor such hatred in their hearts. And to be willing to drive your car purposefully into people speaks to a depravity I don't want to comprehend.

 

[roydo]

I understand, the trouble would be where the line gets drawn.

I just can't fathom how people can harbor such hatred in their hearts. And to be willing to drive your car purposefully into people speaks to a depravity I don't want to comprehend.

This really.

Left, Right, Black, White, Islam, Christian Jew or Hindu.

*other religions/races are available on request*

Just dont get how you can hate a random stranger cos they dont agree with you. But then perhaps I am not a warped human being.

 

[LinekersLegs]

Freedom of speech though covers all speech no matter how vile or detestable it may be.

Limiting freedom of speech, even if right minded in its original intent, would open the door to any number of unintended circumstances.

Not least because "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

By their very nature a lot of the protests are about government (both local and national) which can be very uncomfortable for those in power, if they have much more control of what is "accepted" as a form of speech who is to say they would not be tempted to abuse it?

I doubt I trust Sessions/Trump's judgement on say a Black Liver Matter demo than a conservative would have trusted Obama.