Current Affairs The Conservative Party

[Bruce Wayne]

They as in dinghy's in the channel , the desperate to come specifically here to put their life at risk.

I've seen a couple of other responses to this but based on your experience , why risk their life to come here. Bypassing Europe to risk their life isn't just running for their life, they did that once they got to Europe.

So the motivation to do whatever they can to come to the UK and not France , Germany , Spain , Poland or one of the many other European countries.

Like I say I'm not asking a general point , it's specifically related to those who could die to just get here, let alone be allowed in.



This is a version that I question then. Picking and choosing where they flee to, shouldn't work like that.

Given they risk their life to get here , even so , choosing your refuge country flies in the face of safety and more like a holiday brochure of sorts.

Until you can come up with an answer to the problem then you need a solid why. If it was Germany or whoever you can talk travel routes etc as a potential reason to go there. Dinghy's in the channel isnt quite the same.


It seems an incredibly careless business to do that , as well as inhumane. So they traffic people on the basis that they may not even survive?

I know the backs of lorries etc are a thing as well with that sad story a couple years back.

Yeah I can imagine it's not everybody from Syria of wherever just coming here. I am just asking in relation to people who specifically risk their life to come here. It suggests they haven't been processed anywhere else or that could be wrong.

If it was a case of every other country just kicking them out and them moving on and trying the next one, that would be an answer!

I don't mean to be funny, but have you ever thought of doing the merest hint of your own research into the topic? I mean the BBC had an article published just 6 days ago

How many people cross the Channel in small boats and where do they come from?

Sir Keir Starmer has promised to "smash the gangs" which smuggle people across the English Channel.

www.bbc.co.uk

In the few studies that exist, family ties have been identified as the main reason migrants wish to travel from France to the UK.
In a survey of 402 people at the former Calais "Jungle" camp, researchers from the International Health journal found only 12% wanted to remain in France, while 82% planned to go to England.
Of those that wanted to travel to England more than half (52%), said they already had a family member there.
"They have a connection to the UK, they speak some English, they have family, they have friends and people in their networks. They want to come and stay and rebuild their lives," says Enver Solomon, chief executive of the Refugee Council.

Also from the very same article

Many migrants already choose to make an asylum claim in the first country they arrive in - such as Greece, Turkey or Italy - and only a minority choose to travel on to the UK.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

They as in dinghy's in the channel , the desperate to come specifically here to put their life at risk.

I've seen a couple of other responses to this but based on your experience , why risk their life to come here. Bypassing Europe to risk their life isn't just running for their life, they did that once they got to Europe.

So the motivation to do whatever they can to come to the UK and not France , Germany , Spain , Poland or one of the many other European countries.

Like I say I'm not asking a general point , it's specifically related to those who could die to just get here, let alone be allowed in.



This is a version that I question then. Picking and choosing where they flee to, shouldn't work like that.

Given they risk their life to get here , even so , choosing your refuge country flies in the face of safety and more like a holiday brochure of sorts.

Until you can come up with an answer to the problem then you need a solid why. If it was Germany or whoever you can talk travel routes etc as a potential reason to go there. Dinghy's in the channel isnt quite the same.


It seems an incredibly careless business to do that , as well as inhumane. So they traffic people on the basis that they may not even survive?

I know the backs of lorries etc are a thing as well with that sad story a couple years back.

Yeah I can imagine it's not everybody from Syria of wherever just coming here. I am just asking in relation to people who specifically risk their life to come here. It suggests they haven't been processed anywhere else or that could be wrong.

If it was a case of every other country just kicking them out and them moving on and trying the next one, that would be an answer!

A gammon friend of mine always says the same “why do they come here and not just stop at the first place available….”

I point out that if it were him in a similar situation, would he aim to get him and his family to the best place possible or, would he just camp on the beach of the place he arrived!?!?

We all know the answer but people like him (and you) expect them to behave differently, as if their lives are not worth as much as yours

 

[Ghost Rider]

I don't mean to be funny, but have you ever thought of doing the merest hint of your own research into the topic? I mean the BBC had an article published just 6 days ago

How many people cross the Channel in small boats and where do they come from?

Sir Keir Starmer has promised to "smash the gangs" which smuggle people across the English Channel.

www.bbc.co.uk

Also from the very same article

Bruce I replied to someone who is knowledgable on the subject to ask for their views rather than look up generic information.

I did think that listening to someone else who knows more about it than me would help me learn rather than regurgitate a BBC news article.

Isn't that what you wanted me to do the other day? Learn about something?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Bruce I replied to someone who is knowledgable on the subject to ask for their views rather than look up generic information.

I did think that listening to someone else who knows more about it than me would help me learn rather than regurgitate a BBC news article.

Isn't that what you wanted me to do the other day? Learn about something?

The BBC article references surveys undertaken of people actually in Calais, so I'd say that's a fair reflection of the attitudes of those there. That's the polar opposite of "generic information".

 

[Jebus_lives]

They as in dinghy's in the channel , the desperate to come specifically here to put their life at risk.

I've seen a couple of other responses to this but based on your experience , why risk their life to come here. Bypassing Europe to risk their life isn't just running for their life, they did that once they got to Europe.

So the motivation to do whatever they can to come to the UK and not France , Germany , Spain , Poland or one of the many other European countries.

Like I say I'm not asking a general point , it's specifically related to those who could die to just get here, let alone be allowed in.



This is a version that I question then. Picking and choosing where they flee to, shouldn't work like that.

Given they risk their life to get here , even so , choosing your refuge country flies in the face of safety and more like a holiday brochure of sorts.

Until you can come up with an answer to the problem then you need a solid why. If it was Germany or whoever you can talk travel routes etc as a potential reason to go there. Dinghy's in the channel isnt quite the same.


It seems an incredibly careless business to do that , as well as inhumane. So they traffic people on the basis that they may not even survive?

I know the backs of lorries etc are a thing as well with that sad story a couple years back.

Yeah I can imagine it's not everybody from Syria of wherever just coming here. I am just asking in relation to people who specifically risk their life to come here. It suggests they haven't been processed anywhere else or that could be wrong.

If it was a case of every other country just kicking them out and them moving on and trying the next one, that would be an answer!

I wouldn't suggest that just because people are arriving here by dinghy it's are more or less dangerous than other options.

People come because they think that risking their life is better than the alternative. It's a price worth paying...

In answer to "why the UK?" at all:

A) we are a well developed country with better infrastructure and services than most countries
B) we've until fairly recently in international political terms wanted to stretch our reach to include the entire world - the British Empire influencing or ruling large parts of the world
C) language
D) existing communities within the UK.
E) they may not have a choice - people are taken to wherever traffickers take them
F) they identify with British values or culture that they may not think will be

Interestingly, very little from those I spoke to came here 'for benefits'. Plenty of asylum seekers had no idea what was available or how to access benefits. And those that did know would prefer to go to countries that offer a much better benefit package.

The biggest reason was existing family or community. If you put asylum seekers or refugees somewhere like Carlisle, within a year they will have moved to Manchester, Birmingham or London to be around a known network.

 

[Jebus_lives]

I wouldn't suggest that just because people are arriving here by dinghy it's are more or less dangerous than other options.

People come because they think that risking their life is better than the alternative. It's a price worth paying...

In answer to "why the UK?" at all:

A) we are a well developed country with better infrastructure and services than most countries
B) we've until fairly recently in international political terms wanted to stretch our reach to include the entire world - the British Empire influencing or ruling large parts of the world
C) language
D) existing communities within the UK.
E) they may not have a choice - people are taken to wherever traffickers take them
F) they identify with British values or culture that they may not think will be

Interestingly, very little from those I spoke to came here 'for benefits'. Plenty of asylum seekers had no idea what was available or how to access benefits. And those that did know would prefer to go to countries that offer a much better benefit package.

The biggest reason was existing family or community. If you put asylum seekers or refugees somewhere like Carlisle, within a year they will have moved to Manchester, Birmingham or London to be around a known network.

If you looks at the largest non European countries of Migrants in the UK:

Pakistan
India
Nigeria
South Africa
China

All former parts of the Empire.

Interestingly according to the UNHCR - Rwanda has more refugees than the UK. Maybe they could pay us to take some. Good way to raise the public coffers?

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Seems that often the people who are asking why they want to come here so much are the same ones who think the U.K. is the best country in the world.
Maybe people don’t want to live under the rule of ‘unelected bureaucrats’ and be conscripted into the eu army.

 

[Kurt.]

They as in dinghy's in the channel , the desperate to come specifically here to put their life at risk.

I've seen a couple of other responses to this but based on your experience , why risk their life to come here. Bypassing Europe to risk their life isn't just running for their life, they did that once they got to Europe.

So the motivation to do whatever they can to come to the UK and not France , Germany , Spain , Poland or one of the many other European countries.

Like I say I'm not asking a general point , it's specifically related to those who could die to just get here, let alone be allowed in.



This is a version that I question then. Picking and choosing where they flee to, shouldn't work like that.

Given they risk their life to get here , even so , choosing your refuge country flies in the face of safety and more like a holiday brochure of sorts.

Until you can come up with an answer to the problem then you need a solid why. If it was Germany or whoever you can talk travel routes etc as a potential reason to go there. Dinghy's in the channel isnt quite the same.


It seems an incredibly careless business to do that , as well as inhumane. So they traffic people on the basis that they may not even survive?

I know the backs of lorries etc are a thing as well with that sad story a couple years back.

Yeah I can imagine it's not everybody from Syria of wherever just coming here. I am just asking in relation to people who specifically risk their life to come here. It suggests they haven't been processed anywhere else or that could be wrong.

If it was a case of every other country just kicking them out and them moving on and trying the next one, that would be an answer!

Without trying to sound patronising you really need to educate yourself further. I was lucky enough to attend a seminar on human trafficking a couple of years back where the government hand picked team of officers gave the talk… predominately on Nigeria at the time. They spoke of local gangs and chiefs who run villages and small towns, setting prices on essential goods in the full knowledge that people can’t afford to pay the prices, they then offer to loan people the money to enable them to purchase essentials… and there starts a miserable existence where you are now owned by the local gang and eventually the only choice you have is to make the very dangerous journey of thousands of miles to come to the U.K. and work for the gangs already established here to enable you to pay your debts and ensure your wife and children don’t get murdered because you can’t pay back the money lenders… now the gangs in the U.K. are hidden in plain site…hotels, kitchens in hospitality sectors, hand car washes , nail bars, takeaway shops… predominantly cash businesses … it’s very hard to stop this going on.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Without trying to sound patronising you really need to educate yourself further. I was lucky enough to attend a seminar on human trafficking a couple of years back where the government hand picked team of officers gave the talk… predominately on Nigeria at the time. They spoke of local gangs and chiefs who run villages and small towns, setting prices on essential goods in the full knowledge that people can’t afford to pay the prices, they then offer to loan people the money to enable them to purchase essentials… and there starts a miserable existence where you are now owned by the local gang and eventually the only choice you have is to make the very dangerous journey of thousands of miles to come to the U.K. and work for the gangs already established here to enable you to pay your debts and ensure your wife and children don’t get murdered because you can’t pay back the money lenders… now the gangs in the U.K. are hidden in plain site…hotels, kitchens in hospitality sectors, hand car washes , nail bars, takeaway shops… predominantly cash businesses … it’s very hard to stop this going on.

If only there were some sort of place where people could go to learn about this sort of thing, historical and contemporary slavery, perhaps even in Liverpool... Imagine if it were on the docks in Liverpool! That'd be a good place to start.

 

[peteblue]

The people smugglers are involved long before they get to France.

You are being wrong in every aspect of your argument.

And your argument is what ?…

 

[peteblue]

FFS. How on earth do you think they get to France? Eurostar?

Via other EU countries …

 

[peteblue]

Oh you're so nearly there! Why not bring any who would rather claim asylum in the UK than France/wherever else here legally and allow them to remain whilst their claim is assessed? I mean, it has to be cheaper than flying and incarcerating them in Rwanda.

I see Denmark is now looking to do a similar deal with Rwanda…

 

[Lobster Johnson]

I see Denmark is now looking to do a similar deal with Rwanda…

Also wrong.

What's your point, here?

 

[peteblue]

The 'he got all the big calls right' line is really starting to make me question whether they are a parody.

Even the most hardened brexiteer must now be aware that since Johnson has came in the country is in free fall and is now an international embarrassment.

Only to people like yourself, Ukrainians hold us in the highest esteem….

 

[peteblue]

Also wrong.

What's your point, here?

There is a recognition that the EU are screwing this up for everyone, including real refugees…..