Current Affairs The Conservative Party

[grandjoeblue]

There are still people out there who believe he’s done a good job and give him credit for the abortion that is Brexit and actually think he did a good job “steering” the country through the pandemic.

You really can’t argue with stupid.

How can people look at the likes of Patel, Rees Mogg and Dorries and think these people are capable?

A lot of people are supporting the Tories now like a football team but without the criticism of poor performance.

 

[Jebus_lives]

I say rely as it is a reliance upon selling the dream, the vision of the traffickers providing access to utopia (UK ) or friends and family. If feedback presents a counter reality that you'll end up in Rwanda it might alter the proposition in that decision making process.

I don't think that it is the answer and am not sure that it will get off the ground - but this is what the Tory strategy will be based upon.

As I mentioned previously, it would seem to be more humane and also more functional to have international processing to prevent these people from having to make horrific journeys in the first place.

Which is flawed in my opinion, and previous evidence suggests the same. If you're willing to risk your life to get to the UK in the first place because your conditions are such that they compel you to try then the prospect of deportation to Rwanda will not deter you but it will provide another opportunity for traffickers..

The seeking the dream just becomes "we can get you from Rwanda to the UK".

Ultimately, I suspect there will be few people actually deported, those that do will be subject to horrible conditions, the UK will spend an absolute fortune on the policy, in a few years time it will be dropped or information will be be produced to say that it didn't actual happen* or it did but served no actual deterrent and numbers continued to come - and Patel or whatever other ghoul is in charge of the Tory Home Office will have to make excuses in the media about why it didn't work and suggesting we need to be tougher.

*I'm sure the usual empty vessels will then say things like "you should be happy it didn't work shouldn't you?!"

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Which is flawed in my opinion, and previous evidence suggests the same. If you're willing to risk your life to get to the UK in the first place because your conditions are such that they compel you to try then the prospect of deportation to Rwanda will not deter you but it will provide another opportunity for traffickers..

The seeking the dream just becomes "we can get you from Rwanda to the UK".

Ultimately, I suspect there will be few people actually deported, those that do will be subject to horrible conditions, the UK will spend an absolute fortune on the policy, in a few years time it will be dropped or information will be be produced to say that it didn't actual happen* or it did but served no actual deterrent and numbers continued to come - and Patel or whatever other ghoul is in charge of the Tory Home Office will have to make excuses in the media about why it didn't work and suggesting we need to be tougher.

*I'm sure the usual empty vessels will then say things like "you should be happy it didn't work shouldn't you?!"

It is such a huge problem that the sensible thing would be for all of Europe to come together to stop these people being exploited and dying.

It is so incredibly sad and most certainly need much more than what is a PR exercise.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It is such a huge problem that the sensible thing would be for all of Europe to come together to stop these people being exploited and dying.

It is so incredibly sad and most certainly need much more than what is a PR exercise.

Compare the level of disquiet around the 1 million Syrian refugees housed in Europe to that while housing the 5 million or so Ukrainian refugees and you perhaps get to the heart of the problem.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Which is flawed in my opinion, and previous evidence suggests the same. If you're willing to risk your life to get to the UK in the first place because your conditions are such that they compel you to try then the prospect of deportation to Rwanda will not deter you but it will provide another opportunity for traffickers..

The seeking the dream just becomes "we can get you from Rwanda to the UK".

Ultimately, I suspect there will be few people actually deported, those that do will be subject to horrible conditions, the UK will spend an absolute fortune on the policy, in a few years time it will be dropped or information will be be produced to say that it didn't actual happen* or it did but served no actual deterrent and numbers continued to come - and Patel or whatever other ghoul is in charge of the Tory Home Office will have to make excuses in the media about why it didn't work and suggesting we need to be tougher.

*I'm sure the usual empty vessels will then say things like "you should be happy it didn't work shouldn't you?!"

As you are more of an expert on it, why the UK? Why not any other country other than the UK?

What is the motivation for them choosing here as the place to go over literally anywhere else?

 

[Lobster Johnson]

As you are more of an expert on it, why the UK? Why not any other country other than the UK?

What is the motivation for them choosing here as the place to go over literally anywhere else?

This has been discussed already. Maybe they have family here, maybe they speak some English, maybe they used to work for an English speaking company. Just maybe, they're stupid enough to believe all that stuff about Britain being a fair and compassionate country.

 

[Charro]

As you are more of an expert on it, why the UK? Why not any other country other than the UK?

What is the motivation for them choosing here as the place to go over literally anywhere else?

They don’t choose here. They get sent here by the people smugglers.

It’s a business for them. They sell these poor people a dream of coming to the uk, getting a massive house for you and all your family, hundreds of pounds a week and a version of living which is vastly different to the reality.

It’s why it’s becoming a massive struggle trying to Re-settle people seeking asylum and the governments response to this is to send them all to Rwanda.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

As you are more of an expert on it, why the UK? Why not any other country other than the UK?

What is the motivation for them choosing here as the place to go over literally anywhere else?

"In the year ending June 2021, Germany received the highest number of asylum applicants (113,625) in the EU+, followed by France (87,180). When compared with the EU+ for the year ending June 2021, the UK received the 4th largest number of applicants (37,235). This equates to 8% of the total asylum applicants across the EU+ and UK combined over that period, or the 17th largest intake when measured per head of population.

How many people do we grant asylum or protection to?

www.gov.uk

 

[Jebus_lives]

As you are more of an expert on it, why the UK? Why not any other country other than the UK?

What is the motivation for them choosing here as the place to go over literally anywhere else?

Can we be clear about who we are talking about when we say 'them'. Are you referring to refugees, asylum seekers, economic migrants?

But regardless, they don't is the simple answer.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Compare the level of disquiet around the 1 million Syrian refugees housed in Europe to that while housing the 5 million or so Ukrainian refugees and you perhaps get to the heart of the problem.

The language is pretty important too...

Think about Cameron's "bunch of Migrants" and "swarm" trying to "break in".

We've seen it on here with people saying Ukrainians are "real" refugees and that your status should automatically disqualify you (single men).

 

[spectateur]

As you are more of an expert on it, why the UK? Why not any other country other than the UK?

What is the motivation for them choosing here as the place to go over literally anywhere else?

This has been discussed on here before. However I have met migrants in central France, some of them recycled from the Calais camps. East Africans, know a few words of English.
They have the idea of England being some wonderland, they told me "we no like here, we go England. We get jobs we get money we get house we get girls."
It was impossible to get them to believe otherwise.

 

[Charro]

This has been discussed on here before. However I have met migrants in central France, some of them recycled from the Calais camps. East Africans, know a few words of English.
They have the idea of England being some wonderland, they told me "we no like here, we go England. We get jobs we get money we get house we get girls."
It was impossible to get them to believe otherwise.

That's exactly it.

They expect one thing, but are offered something completely different which makes the re-settlement process extremely difficult.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Some quite upsetting scenes in this reality.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Can we be clear about who we are talking about when we say 'them'. Are you referring to refugees, asylum seekers, economic migrants?

But regardless, they don't is the simple answer.

They as in dinghy's in the channel , the desperate to come specifically here to put their life at risk.

I've seen a couple of other responses to this but based on your experience , why risk their life to come here. Bypassing Europe to risk their life isn't just running for their life, they did that once they got to Europe.

So the motivation to do whatever they can to come to the UK and not France , Germany , Spain , Poland or one of the many other European countries.

Like I say I'm not asking a general point , it's specifically related to those who could die to just get here, let alone be allowed in.

This has been discussed already. Maybe they have family here, maybe they speak some English, maybe they used to work for an English speaking company. Just maybe, they're stupid enough to believe all that stuff about Britain being a fair and compassionate country.

This is a version that I question then. Picking and choosing where they flee to, shouldn't work like that.

Given they risk their life to get here , even so , choosing your refuge country flies in the face of safety and more like a holiday brochure of sorts.

Until you can come up with an answer to the problem then you need a solid why. If it was Germany or whoever you can talk travel routes etc as a potential reason to go there. Dinghy's in the channel isnt quite the same.

They don’t choose here. They get sent here by the people smugglers.

It’s a business for them. They sell these poor people a dream of coming to the uk, getting a massive house for you and all your family, hundreds of pounds a week and a version of living which is vastly different to the reality.

It’s why it’s becoming a massive struggle trying to Re-settle people seeking asylum and the governments response to this is to send them all to Rwanda.

It seems an incredibly careless business to do that , as well as inhumane. So they traffic people on the basis that they may not even survive?

I know the backs of lorries etc are a thing as well with that sad story a couple years back.

"In the year ending June 2021, Germany received the highest number of asylum applicants (113,625) in the EU+, followed by France (87,180). When compared with the EU+ for the year ending June 2021, the UK received the 4th largest number of applicants (37,235). This equates to 8% of the total asylum applicants across the EU+ and UK combined over that period, or the 17th largest intake when measured per head of population.

How many people do we grant asylum or protection to?

www.gov.uk

Yeah I can imagine it's not everybody from Syria of wherever just coming here. I am just asking in relation to people who specifically risk their life to come here. It suggests they haven't been processed anywhere else or that could be wrong.

If it was a case of every other country just kicking them out and them moving on and trying the next one, that would be an answer!

 

[Lobster Johnson]

They as in dinghy's in the channel , the desperate to come specifically here to put their life at risk.

I've seen a couple of other responses to this but based on your experience , why risk their life to come here. Bypassing Europe to risk their life isn't just running for their life, they did that once they got to Europe.

So the motivation to do whatever they can to come to the UK and not France , Germany , Spain , Poland or one of the many other European countries.

Like I say I'm not asking a general point , it's specifically related to those who could die to just get here, let alone be allowed in.



This is a version that I question then. Picking and choosing where they flee to, shouldn't work like that.

Given they risk their life to get here , even so , choosing your refuge country flies in the face of safety and more like a holiday brochure of sorts.

Until you can come up with an answer to the problem then you need a solid why. If it was Germany or whoever you can talk travel routes etc as a potential reason to go there. Dinghy's in the channel isnt quite the same.


It seems an incredibly careless business to do that , as well as inhumane. So they traffic people on the basis that they may not even survive?

I know the backs of lorries etc are a thing as well with that sad story a couple years back.

Yeah I can imagine it's not everybody from Syria of wherever just coming here. I am just asking in relation to people who specifically risk their life to come here. It suggests they haven't been processed anywhere else or that could be wrong.

If it was a case of every other country just kicking them out and them moving on and trying the next one, that would be an answer!

This implies that only countries who, through no fault of their own, border unstable or repressive countries people may need to flee from have a responsibility to house and care for asylum seekers. By this logic, Poland, Slovakia and Romania (off the top of my head) should have to absorb 5 million displaced Ukrainians.

I think we can all agree that as large economies with developed social support provision, the UK, Germany, France et al are in a better place to take that strain.