Current Affairs The Conservative Party

[NilSatisOptimum]

Have had a good chuckle with PR round this NI increase, the apparent fevered debate the Tories have had with themselves, what poppycock!

They can't wait to stick it to the lower incomes. They will get their money be it through wage or bank of mum and dad hard earned assets.

All designed to give their billionaire and multi million donor's well alone in their tax havens.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Quite shocked that the tories have lied to us…. Whoulda thunk it ????

It's taken Boris a year to announce the "plan" to raise more from the public and spend more on social care.

Is this what an Eton and Oxford education gets us? Not exactly complicated or ground breaking policy, and could have been announced at the time he had this "plan".

Obviously he should have raised income tax rather than NI, but that would have been fairer distributing wealth but hit Tory voters harder, so that was never going to happen.

I know people get criticized for saying the voters are stupid, but voting for someone that promises no tax or NI rises while at the same time fixing social care, the NHS and all our other problems is about the most stupid thing I can imagine. Especially when the person making the promise is a proven liar with a long track record of breaking his word at every opportunity.

 

[grandjoeblue]

Raising NI is a tax on the poorest.

Social care needs complete overhaul. Nationalise all social care. The costs involved are ridiculous and the majority of care workers are paid very poorly. Doesn't really add up does it?

How many Tory MPs are involved in owning carehomes?

 

[ToffeeTim]

Social care is in fairness the toughest policy area in government, and probably by a long way. I don't think there is any simple answer now that life expectancy is a lot higher.

I would personally introduce some sort of voluntary care contribution scheme were people can pay in when they are working. The wealthier will then build up a pot which can go towards their care in later life, and that money would be seperate from their other earnings. It could act as some sort of protection against the fear people have that all their money they have built up will go towards care rather than to their kids and grandkids.

There is absolutely no guarantee a scheme like this would work, but I think it's worth having a look at and reassessing. People argued that when auto enrolment came in for pension, people would just opt out and not bother saving for their retirement. But the fact is that the number opting out is now extremely small and people are used to paying in to the pension every month. The money goes out of your pay packet and you don't notice that you're losing it.

 

[Kurt.]

Social care is in fairness the toughest policy area in government, and probably by a long way. I don't think there is any simple answer now that life expectancy is a lot higher.

I would personally introduce some sort of voluntary care contribution scheme were people can pay in when they are working. The wealthier will then build up a pot which can go towards their care in later life, and that money would be seperate from their other earnings. It could act as some sort of protection against the fear people have that all their money they have built up will go towards care rather than to their kids and grandkids.

There is absolutely no guarantee a scheme like this would work, but I think it's worth having a look at and reassessing. People argued that when auto enrolment came in for pension, people would just opt out and not bother saving for their retirement. But the fact is that the number opting out is now extremely small and people are used to paying in to the pension every month. The money goes out of your pay packet and you don't notice that you're losing it.

You mean like a National Insurance thingy ???? Wow… that’s a great idea

 

[ToffeeTim]

You mean like a National Insurance thingy ???? Wow… that’s a great idea

National Insurance means nothing. It just goes into the pot with all other taxes. There is no specific use for each tax, they are all just lumped in together. They should really consolidate NIC and PAYE into one tax because there is no point to there being two different taxes on earnings.

They say they need to raise taxes so it's the overall pot that matters. If a voluntary payment scheme was there and raised the overall tax take, then it would be worthwhile. It's only an idea from me. There is no obvious solution, but there have to be better ways than raising the tax that impacts the young and lower paid the most.

 

[Kurt.]

National Insurance means nothing. It just goes into the pot with all other taxes. There is no specific use for each tax, they are all just lumped in together. They should really consolidate NIC and PAYE into one tax because there is no point to there being two different taxes on earnings.

They say they need to raise taxes so it's the overall pot that matters. If a voluntary payment scheme was there and raised the overall tax take, then it would be worthwhile. It's only an idea from me. There is no obvious solution, but there have to be better ways than raising the tax that impacts the young and lower paid the most.

We all know there is more than enough money to pay for a top class NHS…. The problem lies with greedy millionaires rinsing if for profit.

 

[Kev The Rat]

100% support this tax, if its the only way - and I dont actually think it is - to reduce the horrific costs of social care.

Ive calculated I could stay in a 5 star hotel, for the price of what can only be described in many cases as basic and frankly uncaring 'social care' in some residential homes

 

[mill]

Social care is in fairness the toughest policy area in government, and probably by a long way. I don't think there is any simple answer now that life expectancy is a lot higher.

I would personally introduce some sort of voluntary care contribution scheme were people can pay in when they are working. The wealthier will then build up a pot which can go towards their care in later life, and that money would be seperate from their other earnings. It could act as some sort of protection against the fear people have that all their money they have built up will go towards care rather than to their kids and grandkids.

There is absolutely no guarantee a scheme like this would work, but I think it's worth having a look at and reassessing. People argued that when auto enrolment came in for pension, people would just opt out and not bother saving for their retirement. But the fact is that the number opting out is now extremely small and people are used to paying in to the pension every month. The money goes out of your pay packet and you don't notice that you're losing it.

So you want to privatise health care?

 

[ToffeeTim]

So you want to privatise health care?

I don't really understand your point.

The voluntary contributions would go to the government's tax take. And the care sector already is largely private as it is. I never mentioned NHS or healthcare, I was talking about social care.

I personally don't have any ideological preference between private or public sector dealing with care, but either way we need to improve it and find a sustainable and fair way to fund it.

 

[mill]

I don't really understand your point.

The voluntary contributions would go to the government's tax take. And the care sector already is largely private as it is. I never mentioned NHS or healthcare, I was talking about social care.

I personally don't have any ideological preference between private or public sector dealing with care, but either way we need to improve it and find a sustainable and fair way to fund it.

‘I would personally introduce some sort of voluntary care contribution scheme were people can pay in when they are working. The wealthier will then build up a pot which can go towards their care in later life’

You have effectively described private health care is what I’m getting at.

 

[ToffeeTim]

‘I would personally introduce some sort of voluntary care contribution scheme were people can pay in when they are working. The wealthier will then build up a pot which can go towards their care in later life’

You have effectively described private health care is what I’m getting at.

And the idea is that they then could protect some of their earnings or maybe a house to pass on to children etc, rather than losing everything on care. The money contributed over the working life would go towards care costs, and the contributions would be used first rather than just someone's overall wealth.

It's not an ideal scenario obviously, but I think it's worth trying. I don't think there is any simple or ideal solution with life expectancy of well over 80. People have not opted out of auto enrolment for pension in any large numbers. I don't think it's certain people would opt out of payments towards care. It's not private care, it's making contributions towards future care that presumably would be publicly funded.

 

[mill]

And the idea is that they then could protect some of their earnings or maybe a house to pass on to children etc, rather than losing everything on care. The money contributed over the working life would go towards care costs, and the contributions would be used first rather than just someone's overall wealth.

It's not an ideal scenario obviously, but I think it's worth trying. I don't think there is any simple or ideal solution with life expectancy of well over 80. People have not opted out of auto enrolment for pension in any large numbers. I don't think it's certain people would opt out of payments towards care. It's not private care, it's making contributions towards future care that presumably would be publicly funded.

This is exactly what rich people do already.
They just don’t do it through government. They have their own individual pot.

If you have assets above a certain amount you aren’t eligible for healthcare support.

 

[Blue 1]

100% support this tax, if its the only way - and I dont actually think it is - to reduce the horrific costs of social care.

Ive calculated I could stay in a 5 star hotel, for the price of what can only be described in many cases as basic and frankly uncaring 'social care' in some residential homes

My mum went into one for a bit in order to give her partner some respite not long before she died. It is an absolute scandal what it costs and how poorly the residents are treated, despite the best efforts of most of the overworked, overstretched, and underpaid staff.

 

[ToffeeTim]

This tax rise is on the employer side as well. A totally daft policy

An additional 1.25% tax rise, is actually an increase in the NIC contribution paid of around 10% as well.