Current Affairs The Conservative Party

[Tubey]

And yet you seem to spend most of your energy excusing and siding with them... That's when you're not pontificating on what other people actually think or how black people should protest against the racism they experience in a way which you approve of.

The whole England team 'took the knee' in solidarity with each other; those who booed them booed (and disrespected) the team just as much as they did the gesture. It was an important gesture for them - who the heck are you to tell them they can't peacefully protest an issue very close to their hearts for approx 5-10 seconds before they give their all to win a match/tournament?

No they didn't. Empty sentence that. The 'team' are a separate entity to the gesture, otherwise they'd boo them when they step out onto the pitch and throughout the game. No, the boos are specifically for the gesture, when the gesture occurs.

And I'm not telling them they can't do it. They can take the knee if they want; they have to then accept the repercussions of it if people don't like it. There's no law that mandates people have to like it.

No, what I'm saying is they shouldn't do it, because it's counter-productive. I'm not telling them not to.

And I couldn't be less arsed about what "side" happens to share the same view as me on any given issue. If I have to defend Patel/Johnson/Starmer/Corbyn/anyone on any given subject, I will, because I don't take "sides".

 

[tsubaki]

The Tory legacy legislation for NI to ban all future prosecutions, civil cases and inquests is an incredible betrayal of the rule of law.

This retrospective licence to kill has unified the Irish Govt and all NI parties against it and rightly so. Truth and justice for victims should never be trumped by this attempt to stop the secrets coming out.

TBF truth and justice can be two opposing things here - provided it’s got enough community support, I think you could have an amnesty for those who divulge the truth of what they did, but giving everyone a pass would be as bad as / worse than when Blair did it for the on the runs.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

TBF truth and justice can be two opposing things here - provided it’s got enough community support, I think you could have an amnesty for those who divulge the truth of what they did, but giving everyone a pass would be as bad as / worse than when Blair did it for the on the runs.

The cack handed approach to unilaterally abandoning an agreed template for legacy (Stormont House Agreement) is galling. The appetite in NI is strong for truth recovery and prosecution but this is just a cynical attempt to airbrush the past.

 

[Taifi gorm]

TBF truth and justice can be two opposing things here - provided it’s got enough community support, I think you could have an amnesty for those who divulge the truth of what they did, but giving everyone a pass would be as bad as / worse than when Blair did it for the on the runs.

Only that isn't what is being purposed. A prosecution is not reliant upon the defendant telling the truth. The British state has always opposed a South African style truth and reconciliation. (The Boston tapes issue seen an end to that).
The Tories are still not proposing that they are simply dog whistling to their racist base. Because that's what it is base racism not support for the military. After all the bulk of the most daming evidence provided was contributed by other members of the military. Men who should be applauded for their integrity and professionalism or ignored continuously for the protection and support of those who lack either of the above. Simply to bolster the vote amongst the dregs. Perhaps it was an establishment fear of some truths to be revealed but I doubt the current cabinet cares much past themselves and besides it was just the Paddies.
The one positive being Boris has united both sides in the north against him.

 

[Alan Whittle]

No they didn't. Empty sentence that. The 'team' are a separate entity to the gesture, otherwise they'd boo them when they step out onto the pitch and throughout the game. No, the boos are specifically for the gesture, when the gesture occurs.

And I'm not telling them they can't do it. They can take the knee if they want; they have to then accept the repercussions of it if people don't like it. There's no law that mandates people have to like it.

No, what I'm saying is they shouldn't do it, because it's counter-productive. I'm not telling them not to.

And I couldn't be less arsed about what "side" happens to share the same view as me on any given issue. If I have to defend Patel/Johnson/Starmer/Corbyn/anyone on any given subject, I will, because I don't take "sides".

You do seem to be defending the booing rather than the act. I appreciate it’s a rather academic argument for you, full of semantics and self justifications.
It doesn’t really matter that you think the act is futile what matters for the people that do it is that it is a symbol, a mark of solidarity. I’m sure that they will continue to do it until it develops into something different. Until then, it’s simple, you are either for it or against it.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Hell bells supermarket sweep of vacuous metaphors was that speech.

Levelling up will not detriment London and the South, Boris Johnson says | ITV News

In a wide-ranging speech in Coventry, Mr Johnson said the levelling up agenda was not a "not a jam-spreading operation". | ITV National News

www.itv.com

 

[Alan Whittle]

Hell bells supermarket sweep of vacuous metaphors was that speech.

Levelling up will not detriment London and the South, Boris Johnson says | ITV News

In a wide-ranging speech in Coventry, Mr Johnson said the levelling up agenda was not a "not a jam-spreading operation". | ITV National News

www.itv.com

“It’s not robbing Peter to pay Paul. It’s robbing Peter and Paul to give it to Piers and Percival and making sure Priti changes the law so they can’t complain about it.”

 

[tsubaki]

Only that isn't what is being purposed. A prosecution is not reliant upon the defendant telling the truth. The British state has always opposed a South African style truth and reconciliation. (The Boston tapes issue seen an end to that).
The Tories are still not proposing that they are simply dog whistling to their racist base. Because that's what it is base racism not support for the military. After all the bulk of the most daming evidence provided was contributed by other members of the military. Men who should be applauded for their integrity and professionalism or ignored continuously for the protection and support of those who lack either of the above. Simply to bolster the vote amongst the dregs. Perhaps it was an establishment fear of some truths to be revealed but I doubt the current cabinet cares much past themselves and besides it was just the Paddies.
The one positive being Boris has united both sides in the north against him.

I know its not, this is a terrible idea. I was just saying that we could have something like that, and it might do better (in terms of actually delivering answers to families) than solely going down the criminal route would.

 

[dead_soft]

No they didn't. Empty sentence that. The 'team' are a separate entity to the gesture, otherwise they'd boo them when they step out onto the pitch and throughout the game. No, the boos are specifically for the gesture, when the gesture occurs.

And I'm not telling them they can't do it. They can take the knee if they want; they have to then accept the repercussions of it if people don't like it. There's no law that mandates people have to like it.

No, what I'm saying is they shouldn't do it, because it's counter-productive. I'm not telling them not to.

And I couldn't be less arsed about what "side" happens to share the same view as me on any given issue. If I have to defend Patel/Johnson/Starmer/Corbyn/anyone on any given subject, I will, because I don't take "sides".

Curious what you mean by not taking sides. You might not choose a direct major political figure to actively support (I’m not sure many here do) but you definitely follow a very centrist dogma that aims to support the status quo. And it’s not a terrible thing to consider why someone is agreeing with you. I mean, looking at why you think certain things is always useful.

 

[Tubey]

Curious what you mean by not taking sides. You might not choose a direct major political figure to actively support (I’m not sure many here do) but you definitely follow a very centrist dogma that aims to support the status quo. And it’s not a terrible thing to consider why someone is agreeing with you. I mean, looking at why you think certain things is always useful.

Here's the thing - I know, without even asking, your view on any given subject whatsoever politically.

You don't with me. That's what you don't like actually; that I'm unreliable, that I'm not an "ally". That if I see something as BS, I'll call it as BS without a second thought to my political precedence.

I don't "support the status quo", because if I think something is right or wrong, I don't care whether it "supports the status quo".

 

[anxiouswarrior]

Levelling up another load of garbage from Bullingdon and his rancid mob of liars , the tragedy is that working class people fell for this drivel from the tories and their cheerleaders

 

[Tubey]

Levelling up another load of garbage from Bullingdon and his rancid mob of liars , the tragedy is that working class people fell for this drivel from the tories and their cheerleaders

It's funny how he's at pains to say it's not "robbing the rich to feed the poor". He's trying to walk a thin dividing line between appeasing the 'Red Wall' and not upsetting his base.

The reaction has been clear - he's annoyed everyone.

 

[dead_soft]

Here's the thing - I know, without even asking, your view on any given subject whatsoever politically.

You don't with me. That's what you don't like actually; that I'm unreliable, that I'm not an "ally". That if I see something as BS, I'll call it as BS without a second thought to my political precedence.

I don't "support the status quo", because if I think something is right or wrong, I don't care whether it "supports the status quo".

You say this a lot, about a lot of different people. You don’t. You think you do and you want to but you don’t. You’ve repeatedly called me a Corbynite which is spectacularly wrong.

You’re really not unreliable. All of your views can be heard from the same groups of centrists who think they already have it all sorted and don’t need to listen to anyone else. It’s why you think that people who follow a political thought or care passionately are ridiculous. I am pretty sure many on here are much more politically active and politically knowledgable than you but you will never, ever, accept an ounce of learning from them. It’s fine, there’s always been people like that. It’s just a bit of a shame.

 

[coollino]

Here's the thing - I know, without even asking, your view on any given subject whatsoever politically.

You don't with me. That's what you don't like actually; that I'm unreliable, that I'm not an "ally". That if I see something as BS, I'll call it as BS without a second thought to my political precedence.

I don't "support the status quo", because if I think something is right or wrong, I don't care whether it "supports the status quo".

 

[Tubey]

You say this a lot, about a lot of different people. You don’t. You think you do and you want to but you don’t. You’ve repeatedly called me a Corbynite which is spectacularly wrong.

You’re really not unreliable. All of your views can be heard from the same groups of centrists who think they already have it all sorted and don’t need to listen to anyone else. It’s why you think that people who follow a political thought or care passionately are ridiculous. I am pretty sure many on here are much more politically active and politically knowledgable than you but you will never, ever, accept an ounce of learning from them. It’s fine, there’s always been people like that. It’s just a bit of a shame.

The irony is astonishing. Really is. You have, provably, no ability whatsoever to take on board different views and adapt/learn, to the extent that you've literally said on here in the past that listening to certain people is pointless, dismissing them as "pub bores" who aren't worth the time of day, so to be told that by you is incredible.

I'll read the Guardian, I'll listen to TalkRadio, I'll read academic journals, I'll listen to every politician and activist from every single angle, I'll take on board any view from any one person or publication whatsoever and then form my own opinion. That's learning.