Current Affairs The Conservative Party

[Blueblooded]

The Human Rights Act covers freedom of expression and speech interchangably via Article 10.

Fair enough. But you do realise you're talking about a moral vacuum of a PM who will support whatever position he believes is most beneficial to him? Ergo he tacitly approved of booing when Priti Patel chose to try to whip up support for racist boo-boys, but now he senses the tide of public opinion turning so he is furiously rowing back on that position.

 

[verreauxi]

Can be anything really. Just so long as highlighting racial inequality and violence is done in a way that doesn’t offend white people.

I paid good money to sit in my arena of escapism.

 

[Tubey]

Fair enough. But you do realise you're talking about a moral vacuum of a PM who will support whatever position he believes is most beneficial to him? Ergo he tacitly approved of booing when Priti Patel chose to try to whip up support for racist boo-boys, but now he senses the tide of public opinion turning so he is furiously rowing back on that position.

He isn't rowing back, it's been his position all along. Same as Patel.

This was his spokesman's comment in June.

“On taking the knee, specifically, the prime minister is more focused on action rather than gestures. We have taken action with things like the Commission on Racial and Ethnic Disparities and that’s what he’s focused on delivering.”

The same as today.

Patel said she disapproves of "gesture politics", which is what she interpreted taking the knee to be - and it's a valid view. She didn't say she approved of the booing, she said it's a choice for the fans, which it is.

 

[Blueblooded]

He isn't rowing back, it's been his position all along. Same as Patel.

This was his spokesman's comment in June.



The same as today.

Patel said she disapproves of "gesture politics", which is what she interpreted taking the knee to be - and it's a valid view. She didn't say she approved of the booing, she said it's a choice for the fans, which it is.

Of course she approved of it - she'd have roundly and openly condemned it otherwise (but racist/xenophobic dog-whistling is her preferred style after all).

And here's what Johnson said at today's PMQ's:
“We made it absolutely clear that no-one should boo the England team.”
How the heck does that equate to Patel's 'it's up to them' position?

If you want to talk about "gesture politics" here's an actual politician with virtually no documented interest in football trying to use it for her own gain:

 

[Tubey]

Of course she approved of it - she'd have roundly and openly condemned it otherwise (but racist/xenophobic dog-whistling is her preferred style after all).

And here's what Johnson said at today's PMQ's:
“We made it absolutely clear that no-one should boo the England team.”
How the heck does that equate to Patel's 'it's up to them' position?

If you want to talk about "gesture politics" here's an actual politician with virtually no documented interest in football trying to use it for her own gain:View attachment 133295

She didn't approve it; she refused to condemn it. They aren't the same thing. The same as saying "I won't take the knee" is the same as "I'm against anti-racism", which it isn't, otherwise Wilfried Zaha is a massive racist.

The distinction is important.

Also, "We made it absolutely clear that no-one should boo the England team" has a very important factor in it - the "England team". It makes no note of the gesture. Booing the knee doesn't equate to booing the players; it's booing the gesture. Here, Johnson took a stance that booing the England team is "wrong", for whatever reason, but not booing the gesture.

They neither condemn nor endorse that - they leave it be. They see it as gesture politics. They're entitled to. As much as you can point to many, many, many instances of Patel and co. using gesture politics of their own, as per below.




It takes one to know one I guess. Patel and Johnson are provable scum in many ways, but it's important to be accurate when criticising them.

 

[Blueblooded]

She didn't approve it; she refused to condemn it. They aren't the same thing. The same as saying "I won't take the knee" is the same as "I'm against anti-racism", which it isn't, otherwise Wilfried Zaha is a massive racist.

The distinction is important.

Also, "We made it absolutely clear that no-one should boo the England team" has a very important factor in it - the "England team". It makes no note of the gesture. Booing the knee doesn't equate to booing the players; it's booing the gesture. Here, Johnson took a stance that booing the England team is "wrong", for whatever reason, but not booing the gesture.

They neither condemn nor endorse that - they leave it be. They see it as gesture politics. They're entitled to. As much as you can point to many, many, many instances of Patel and co. using gesture politics of their own, as per below.

View attachment 133297


It takes one to know one I guess. Patel and Johnson are provable scum in many ways, but it's important to be accurate when criticising them.

And yet you seem to spend most of your energy excusing and siding with them... That's when you're not pontificating on what other people actually think or how black people should protest against the racism they experience in a way which you approve of.

The whole England team 'took the knee' in solidarity with each other; those who booed them booed (and disrespected) the team just as much as they did the gesture. It was an important gesture for them - who the heck are you to tell them they can't peacefully protest an issue very close to their hearts for approx 5-10 seconds before they give their all to win a match/tournament?

 

[Caolam]

Should it hell.

He's not supporting booing; he's simply not condemning it, as it's freedom of speech. It isn't racial abuse, that's just bloody daft.

We don’t have freedom of speech. Our Freedom of Speech laws are based upon what is reasonable. You cannot say whatever you like about anyone with impunity. To abuse someone purely on the grounds of their race is an offence and under the law needs to be prosecuted for the good of society as a whole.
To be PM is as much about what you don’t say as it is about what you do say. If you don’t understand that they you don’t understand politics in this country.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

We don’t have freedom of speech. Our Freedom of Speech laws are based upon what is reasonable. You cannot say whatever you like about anyone with impunity. To abuse someone purely on the grounds of their race is an offence and under the law needs to be prosecuted for the good of society as a whole.
To be PM is as much about what you don’t say as it is about what you do say. If you don’t understand that they you don’t understand politics in this country.

Wants the trappings of being PM without any of the responsibility of PM. Much like the the entire government.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Booing isn't speech though is it? At best it's ill-mannered and at worst it sends players the message that the fans don't respect them enough to allow them to engage in a brief moment of anti-racist solidarity.

Booing footballers while kneeling is about hate and anger, no other description when they just want a brief period of silent reflection. Is what the Government chose to ignore. Boris and chums have pandered to nationalism for far too long let them off the leash to gain power and now at a loss at trying to appease them.

 

[DanEFC92]

 

[dead_soft]

And I can imagine those who say the knee is divisive and people have a right to boo will be unable to see the connection between their views and this sort of behaviour.

 

[mill]

‘This is how we expect you to behave’.

 

[gonetomorrow]

Wants the trappings of being PM without any of the responsibility of PM. Much like the the entire government.

God I'll be glad when he's gone.

 

[Alan Whittle]

She didn't approve it; she refused to condemn it. They aren't the same thing. The same as saying "I won't take the knee" is the same as "I'm against anti-racism", which it isn't, otherwise Wilfried Zaha is a massive racist.

The distinction is important.

Also, "We made it absolutely clear that no-one should boo the England team" has a very important factor in it - the "England team". It makes no note of the gesture. Booing the knee doesn't equate to booing the players; it's booing the gesture. Here, Johnson took a stance that booing the England team is "wrong", for whatever reason, but not booing the gesture.

They neither condemn nor endorse that - they leave it be. They see it as gesture politics. They're entitled to. As much as you can point to many, many, many instances of Patel and co. using gesture politics of their own, as per below.

View attachment 133297


It takes one to know one I guess. Patel and Johnson are provable scum in many ways, but it's important to be accurate when criticising them.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

The Tory legacy legislation for NI to ban all future prosecutions, civil cases and inquests is an incredible betrayal of the rule of law.

This retrospective licence to kill has unified the Irish Govt and all NI parties against it and rightly so. Truth and justice for victims should never be trumped by this attempt to stop the secrets coming out.