Current Affairs The Conservative Party

[Alan Whittle]

Ridiculous and offensive comment.

It was not meant to be offensive. If you found it offensive, please accept my apologies. Nor is it ridiculous. Obama’s views on race inequality are clear, well known and widely reported around the world. Yours are in a football Internet forum. Therefore, likely to be less well known or understood as widely.

 

[dead_soft]

A 60/40 support for anti-racism is woeful. It should be 99% with a 1% margin of error. That's what I meant by fans being in the ground creating an artificial sense of unaminous support.

That'd be great but that's not the fault of the knee. What an odd comment. It's worse than the arguments against LTNs which say that not enough people are cycling so they don't work.

 

[Tubey]

It was not meant to be offensive. If you found it offensive, please accept my apologies. Nor is it ridiculous. Obama’s views on race inequality are clear, well known and widely reported around the world. Yours are in a football Internet forum. Therefore, likely to be less well known or understood as widely.

You said my use of the word "gesture" "made it clear" what my stance was. That was enough for you to give me a label.

Obama used the same word. You didn't use the same standards.

My views on race inequality are crystal clear. I abhor it. The reason I'm so annoyed on here is because I find the knee completely, thoroughly ineffective and counter-productive. I teach my kids that skin colour doesn't matter, they can be any sexuality they like, everyone is who they are, the content of their character is of paramount importance. There's nothing I've posted on here that contradicts that, ever.

 

[tsubaki]

A 60/40 support for anti-racism is woeful. It should be 99% with a 1% margin of error. That's what I meant by fans being in the ground creating an artificial sense of unaminous support.

Its at that level (which as an aside is more of a majority in the population than nearly every government has received at a GE) because of lies though.

You can either accept those lies and move on to something else that they’ll also lie about, or call out the lies.

 

[dead_soft]

You said my use of the word "gesture" "made it clear" what my stance was. That was enough for you to give me a label.

Obama used the same word. You didn't use the same standards.

My views on race inequality are crystal clear. I abhor it. The reason I'm so annoyed on here is because I find the knee completely, thoroughly ineffective and counter-productive. I teach my kids that skin colour doesn't matter, they can be any sexuality they like, everyone is who they are, the content of their character is of paramount importance. There's nothing I've posted on here that contradicts that, ever.

"Abraham Lincoln once said that, 'If you're a racist, I will attack you with the North.' And those are the principles that I carry with me in the workplace."

 

[mill]

It’s so problematic trying to tell people how the should express themselves.

you can protest but only in a way thats acceptable to us.

 

[tsubaki]

Meanwhile, imagine Corbs had even proposed this:

Government to introduce statute of limitations on Troubles prosecutions

Brandon Lewis to outline approach amid criticism that move amounts to amnesty for army veterans and paramilitaries

www.theguardian.com

(I am not opposed in principle to amnesty, though they should only be given in exchange for a full and frank confession of what a person actually did and to whom).

 

[Charro]

It’s so problematic trying to tell people how the should express themselves.

you can protest but only in a way thats acceptable to us.

Do people actually beleive theres a way to protest racism that will be universally accepted? Especially in this day and age?

The gesture isn’t the problem. It may be to Tubey, but he’s giving the people that boo and speak out against the gesture far too much credit if he thinks there’s any sort of intellectual argument being made by them.

 

[Amw79]

It’s so problematic trying to tell people how the should express themselves.

you can protest but only in a way thats acceptable to us.

This is the problem. When Kaepernick took the knee he was booed for being unpatriotic, and called a ‘son of a bitch’ by the president. More people then followed that lead.

The people who booed, said it wasn’t to do with them being racists, but because he was disrespecting the flag, and he should protest in a different way.

When Black Lives Matter became a slogan (before there was any real known political associations), people shouted that the slogan really meant that non-black lives don’t matter, and the slogan should be ‘All lives matter’, so they should change the slogan.

Now, England players take the knee, and the public are sold a lie about it being entirely to do with BLM as an organisation, and are then booed by people saying, we’re not against anti-racism, but we don’t like the political association, so you should change (or stop) the gesture.

If a new gesture or slogan comes into play it will also be deliberately misinterpreted and linked with something else, to give people a cover to oppose it. All of it, sends a clear message to black people, to get back in your box and behave in the way we tell you to.

 

[Tubey]

This is the problem. When Kaepernick took the knee he was booed for being unpatriotic, and called a ‘son of a bitch’ by the president. More people then followed that lead.

The people who booed, said it wasn’t to do with them being racists, but because he was disrespecting the flag, and he should protest in a different way.

When Black Lives Matter became a slogan (before there was any real known political associations), people shouted that the slogan really meant that non-black lives don’t matter, and the slogan should be ‘All lives matter’, so they should change the slogan.

Now, England players take the knee, and the public are sold a lie about it being entirely to do with BLM as an organisation, and are then booed by people saying, we’re not against anti-racism, but we don’t like the political association, so you should change (or stop) the gesture.

If a new gesture or slogan comes into play it will also be deliberately misinterpreted and linked with something else, to give people a cover to oppose it. All of it, sends a clear message to black people, to get back in your box and behave in the way we tell you to.

Try it then. What's to lose? If what you say happens, then nothing has changed except the gesture.

If what you say doesn't happen, as I believe, then you have an effective gesture that will be attacked purely by those who will show themselves up when they do.

 

[Amw79]

Try it then. What's to lose? If what you say happens, then nothing has changed except the gesture.

If what you say doesn't happen, as I believe, then you have an effective gesture that will be attacked purely by those who will show themselves up when they do.

Dont think it’s for me to decide that, I’m not the one doing the kneeling.

Question for you, you say you were behind Kaepernick taking the knee, but he was massively booed and criticised. Do you think all those people were racists, as they also claimed to have a legitimate non-racist problem with it - it was disrespecting the flag.

There’s maybe even a reasonable argument that could be made for that - ‘you should stand up for the national anthem, that’s the tradition, and he refused, so he’s being unpatriotic and disrespecting the country.’

The fact that Kaepernick told everyone why he was, and wasn’t, doing it carries weight, the same as it does with the England players.

I actually agree with you in part, it’s unlikely everyone booing the knee is actually racist, but the gesture has been deliberately entangled with something else by politicians, sections of the media, and other groups, in order to shut people up, stoke the ‘culture war’ and undercut the message.

 

[PaulPowersTash]

Of course, but again, like Kaepernick, that reaction validated them.

The reaction to the knee now isn't valification, because it's not solely being reacted to by the 'target audience' - it's massive amounts of people who have a problem with it for reasons beyond what they want it to mean.

So the gesture, objectively, fails.

And bravo on your last sentence. Standard stuff. To counter that nonsense, here's this.

Rosa Parks Was Dubbed the “Mother of the Civil Rights Movement.” Here's How She Earned That Title.

Parks was arrested after she refused to give up her seat to a white passenger on a segregated bus in Montgomery, Alabama, igniting a protest campaign that partially ended segregation.

www.biography.com

If anyone thinks that the Rosa Parks bus protest was a spontaneous action they need to
brush up on their civil rights history. It was 2 years in the planning.

 

[toffee82]

Mate, 4 in every 10 football fans disapprove of this gesture. It's being booed before every game by thousands. What more proof do you need that this is causing division???

Could it be that 4 out of 10 football fans range from a bit racist to full blown racists?

 

[mill]

Could it be that 4 out of 10 football fans range from a bit racist to full blown racists?

And points out how necessary it is to raise awareness of said racists.

 

[degsy]

Mate, 4 in every 10 football fans disapprove of this gesture. It's being booed before every game by thousands. What more proof do you need that this is causing division???

Hard to tell the individual reason behind each Boo