Current Affairs The Conservative Party

[tsubaki]

The standfirst on his article is spectacular, 'Those who dwell in bubbles of their own creation are unlikely even to be able to comprehend that Tyrone Mings was wrong' - does it sound like the words of anyone anyone else knows?

Its truly magical, how he argues Mings said something (which he didn’t say) in a context (which he didn’t say what did say in) and therefore unless he apologises and submits (!) he should be banned from playing for England for several games.

 

[Moomin]

So the England players have stated why they take the knee. Southgate backed them up on numerous interviews and press conferences.

Kick it out stated that the taking of the knee is not politcally motivated.

Yet some people would rather believe the like of Nigel Farage and Lozza Fox of why they take the knee.

You could'nt make it up.

 

[dead_soft]

@Tubey - does any of this make you reconsider whether it’s the knee that’s the problem?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Who'd have thought Patel's father was a UKIPer. I'm shocked.

Witham MP Priti Patel’s father fails to win seat for UKIP

TORY MP Priti Patel’s UK Independence Party candidate father has failed to win a seat coming in 1,200 votes behind her party.

www.eadt.co.uk

 

[Tubey]

@Tubey - does any of this make you reconsider whether it’s the knee that’s the problem?

Nope, for several reasons.

One, that letter is from Conservatives Against Racism For Equality, meaning Baker would have been up poop creek without a paddle if he ignored it, so he's simply being a politician here. There's no condemnation in what he says - it's simply "I fear" nonsense covering his own arse, and you've seen the Tory response from Schapps this morning to slap him down. Politically, small amounts of activists will be ignored in favour of the wider electorate; Tory advisers will be correctly stating that the Tory leadership shouldn't and won't be playing this game.

Two, again, if you have to explain what the "modern" meaning of taking the knee is, the gesture fails. Automatically. That person goes to great lengths to try and tell people what taking the knee means, simply saying it's "wrong" that it's linked to Kaepernick/BLM - connotation simply doesn't work that way. You don't get to decide what the gesture means simply because you don't want it to mean something else.

Three, the letter actually backs up what I've said in one sentence - "racism shouldn't be about left and right, it should be about right and wrong." Absolutely. The knee fails to make it that. So change the gesture - because it fails, absolutely.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Nope, for several reasons.

One, that letter is from Conservatives Against Racism For Equality, meaning Baker would have been up poop creek without a paddle if he ignored it, so he's simply being a politician here. There's no condemnation in what he says - it's simply "I fear" nonsense covering his own arse, and you've seen the Tory response from Schapps this morning to slap him down. Politically, small amounts of activists will be ignored in favour of the wider electorate; Tory advisers will be correctly stating that the Tory leadership shouldn't and won't be playing this game.

Two, again, if you have to explain what the "modern" meaning of taking the knee is, the gesture fails. Automatically. That person goes to great lengths to try and tell people what taking the knee means, simply saying it's "wrong" that it's linked to Kaepernick/BLM - connotation simply doesn't work that way. You don't get to decide what the gesture means simply because you don't want it to mean something else.

Three, the letter actually backs up what I've said in one sentence - "racism shouldn't be about left and right, it should be about right and wrong." Absolutely. The knee fails to make it that. So change the gesture - because it fails, absolutely.

Early start today mate

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yeah but a government that is happily slashing aid to the Global South and has for a decade enacted a hostile environment against foreigners is most definitely not racist. They just need a non-Marxist symbol to gather behind. Uhuh.

 

[mill]

Yeah but a government that is happily slashing aid to the Global South and has for a decade enacted a hostile environment against foreigners is most definitely not racist. They just need a non-Marxist symbol to gather behind. Uhuh.

Haha

 

[Tubey]

Yeah but a government that is happily slashing aid to the Global South and has for a decade enacted a hostile environment against foreigners is most definitely not racist. They just need a non-Marxist symbol to gather behind. Uhuh.

Two thirds of the public at the end of 2020 supported cutting foreign aid, including support across all political allegiances.

YouGov UK: Data Analytics & Market Research Services

Explore YouGov's market research and data analytics services for valuable insights. Make informed business decisions with our consumer analysis & intelligence.

yougov.co.uk

The problem most have is simply about how it's done, what programs are cut. For years we sent most of the money to the likes of Pakistan - a nuclear power - and Nigeria. People oppose that.

Also, the UK foreign aid cut still puts it in line with the likes of Germany.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Two thirds of the public at the end of 2020 supported cutting foreign aid, including support across all political allegiances.

YouGov UK: Data Analytics & Market Research Services

Explore YouGov's market research and data analytics services for valuable insights. Make informed business decisions with our consumer analysis & intelligence.

yougov.co.uk

The problem most have is simply about how it's done, what programs are cut. For years we sent most of the money to the likes of Pakistan - a nuclear power - and Nigeria. People oppose that.

Also, the UK foreign aid cut still puts it in line with the likes of Germany.

I didn't realise the general public had any clue about foreign policy? It's not the job of government to pander to the whims of people who can't be expected to know the first thing about the policies government are deciding on. That's why we have a government and don't hold referendums for every decision.

 

[tsubaki]

Nope, for several reasons.

One, that letter is from Conservatives Against Racism For Equality, meaning Baker would have been up poop creek without a paddle if he ignored it, so he's simply being a politician here. There's no condemnation in what he says - it's simply "I fear" nonsense covering his own arse, and you've seen the Tory response from Schapps this morning to slap him down. Politically, small amounts of activists will be ignored in favour of the wider electorate; Tory advisers will be correctly stating that the Tory leadership shouldn't and won't be playing this game.

Two, again, if you have to explain what the "modern" meaning of taking the knee is, the gesture fails. Automatically. That person goes to great lengths to try and tell people what taking the knee means, simply saying it's "wrong" that it's linked to Kaepernick/BLM - connotation simply doesn't work that way. You don't get to decide what the gesture means simply because you don't want it to mean something else.

Three, the letter actually backs up what I've said in one sentence - "racism shouldn't be about left and right, it should be about right and wrong." Absolutely. The knee fails to make it that. So change the gesture - because it fails, absolutely.

TBF I think you’ve completely misunderstood what Mercer, Amankona and Baker were saying, which was that twisting things (like taking the knee) into wedge issues is the problem here.

Taking a knee is (as repeatedly said) seen by some in the way that it is because of what some people have done - which is basically lied about it. Players have repeatedly said why they are doing it and yet others have ignored that and instead made it about extremism, Marxism, a mythical global organisation or anything else that scares the proles.

 

[BlueToff]

They really are the scum of the earth, when they come out with their rhetoric over BLM.

If you live in Romford, write to your MP, because he's a complete prat. Just call him a nonce or something.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

They really are the scum of the earth, when they come out with their rhetoric over BLM.

If you live in Romford, write to your MP, because he's a complete prat. Just call him a nonce or something.

I suspect the fact that you a) live in Romford, and b) voted for said prat, suggests that you may not be that opposed to being dog whistled.

 

[Alan Whittle]

I didn't realise the general public had any clue about foreign policy?

You clearly haven’t been in a Wetherspoons lately.

 

[Tubey]

TBF I think you’ve completely misunderstood what Mercer, Amankona and Baker were saying, which was that twisting things (like taking the knee) into wedge issues is the problem here.

Taking a knee is (as repeatedly said) seen by some in the way that it is because of what some people have done - which is basically lied about it. Players have repeatedly said why they are doing it and yet others have ignored that and instead made it about extremism, Marxism, a mythical global organisation or anything else that scares the proles.

The players could spend every second of their remaining lives explaining they're taking the knee purely as an anti-racism gesture, but if the connotations of that gesture in the public mind are something else, then it means the square sum of nothing.

Like I can't throw up a Nazi salute and say it's in support of Greenpeace. It doesn't matter if it is in support of Greenpeace, because the surrounding connotation of the gesture is overwhelming.

So it's not "twisting things", and it isn't even lying - it is a gesture that is inextricably tied to Black Lives Matter. Again, it doesn't matter if what the public believes about BLM is true or not, because perception is everything.

So you have a gesture that is seen as overtly political. So bin the gesture. Do something else. It really is that simple. You have people like this time and time again reasonably explaining the issue, and they're being completely ignored so as to continue to dig the hole they're in, because they refuse to accept the reality of the situation.