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[Bishop Thumpety-Thump]

Where?

I'm giving figures and sources for my views. What are you and him doing? The square sum of nothing.

You gave no facts or figures in your reply to my post. Apart from the '40% of the country must be racist then' that you made in up in your mad head.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Because you're fighting societal racism. Society is the public.

I think you confuse "ok with it" with "supporting it". Only 1 in 4 people support the players taking the knee strongly. 4 in 10 oppose it.

It's the very definition of divisive as a gesture.

This was what Mings said.



He specifically said "stoke the fire" against the "anti-racism message". Patel didn't see it as an anti-racism message; she saw it as gesture politics. She's entitled to that view. Mings is, to be blunt, wrong.

Mate he’s the one taking the knee, see’s his team mates getting endless racist abuse and no doubt has been on the receiving end of it himself. I feel he is better qualified to say whether he is right or wrong than yourself to be honest.

 

[coollino]

Mate he’s the one taking the knee, see’s his team mates getting endless racist abuse and no doubt has been on the receiving end of it himself. I feel he is better qualified to say whether he is right or wrong than yourself to be honest.

oh god, good luck

 

[Tubey]

Mate he’s the one taking the knee, see’s his team mates getting endless racist abuse and no doubt has been on the receiving end of it himself. I feel he is better qualified to say whether he is right or wrong than yourself to be honest.

No he isn't. He's entitled to his view whether he's right or wrong, but not whether he is right or wrong.

You don't have to be Steven Spielberg to be a movie critic. For your logic to work, Johnson is right about everything he does because he's the Prime Minister - nobody else is the PM, so they're all wrong because they "aren't qualified" - doesn't work that way.

 

[Amw79]

In related news, GB News’s final remaining viewer switched off the channel today. RIP.

 

[tsubaki]

You play the hand you're dealt. Doesn't matter how people come to the conclusion they oppose; if the gesture in the zeitgeist has come to have those connotations, then it fails as a gesture. You can moan about the hows and whys all you want, it doesn't change the reality. The truth is the connotation of the gesture is inextricably tied with Black Lives Matter, and the connotation of Black Lives Matter is inextricably tied to extreme left wing politics.

That's why I started this discussion by asking what the end game of the gesture is. I mean look at this.



There are people like this who genuinely thought they'd take the knee and racism would magically disappear, and are oblivious as to why it's now worse.

It simply doesn't work as a gesture. That really is the be all, end all with it as an annoyance to me - if it worked, even remotely, then all power to it. But it clearly doesn't.

Perception is not reality, tubey. Taking the knee is not about BLM, and BLM is not “extreme left politics”. All of those things are fibs out about by the media and by politicians, including the one Mings criticised.

We should, as a country, confront these lies not embed them in our collective understanding of things.

 

[Tubey]

Perception is not reality, tubey. Taking the knee is not about BLM, and BLM is not “extreme left politics”. All of those things are fibs out about by the media and by politicians, including the one Mings criticised.

We should, as a country, confront these lies not embed them in our collective understanding of things.

You can't erase this by just pretending it didn't happen.

 

[Tubey]

"Taking the knee isn't political... except if you support taking the knee but happen to be a Tory."

 

[Charro]

Division. For every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. The knee causes divisions, boos in response cause division, everyone gets more divided.

That's why taking the knee fails. If you're fighting something that should be so obviously universally abhorrent as racism and the mechanism you use to highlight it is being booed, then obviously it's because of one of two things - either there's an incredible amount of racists, around 40% of football fans, who rabidly hate the idea of equal rights, or the gesture has too many other connotations that muddy the waters.

I'd like to think most people, looking at the situation objectively, would come to the conclusion that the latter of those two reasons is much more likely than the former.

So division caused by protesting racial abuse is bad, but division caused by booing said protest is fine?

Surely you want the same goal as everyone else in this thread, so why are you continuously defending the people booing if they’re not progressing the cause in any way themselves?

 

[JimmyJeffers]

No he isn't. He's entitled to his view whether he's right or wrong, but not whether he is right or wrong.

You don't have to be Steven Spielberg to be a movie critic. For your logic to work, Johnson is right about everything he does because he's the Prime Minister - nobody else is the PM, so they're all wrong because they "aren't qualified" - doesn't work that way.

lol Yes but you said, categorically, that he was wrong. I’m saying he comes from a more informed position as to whether to make that call.
ok that’s me done. Who wants to take over now

 

[Tubey]

So division caused by protesting racial abuse is bad, but division caused by booing said protest is fine?

Surely you want the same goal as everyone else in this thread, so why are you continuously defending the people booing if they’re not progressing the cause in any way themselves?

Honestly can't comprehend how that's the conclusion you got from that...

No, they're both bad. What I'm saying is they're not happening in a vacuum - one is triggering the other, which in turn 'triggers' the 'other side' more. The ultimate cause is racism existing; my issue is that taking the knee isn't addressing that cause at all and instead exacerbates it.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

lol

 

[tsubaki]

View attachment 133176

You can't erase this by just pretending it didn't happen.

Again Tubey, just because the words “black lives matter” appear in that order it does not mean they automatically refer to the monolithic worldwide Marxist organisation BLM, which doesn’t exist.

 

[Tubey]

lol Yes but you said, categorically, that he was wrong. I’m saying he comes from a more informed position as to whether to make that call.
ok that’s me done. Who wants to take over now

He is wrong. Objectively so. Patel didn't "stoke the fire" of racism with her belief taking the knee is gesture politics. That wasn't her intent, she was asked a very specific question and gave a very specific answer.

Indeed, what Mings has done there is actually defamation. Take politics out of it and look at the statement objectively - he is flat out wrong in what he said about Patel.

“I just don't support people participating in that type of gesture politics."

That's all she said.

 

[Charro]

Honestly can't comprehend how that's the conclusion you got from that...

No, they're both bad. What I'm saying is they're not happening in a vacuum - one is triggering the other, which in turn 'triggers' the 'other side' more. The ultimate cause is racism existing; my issue is that taking the knee isn't addressing that cause at all and instead exacerbates it.

Youve spent the last year defending the people who boo, so it’s easy to see why anyone would come to that conclusion.

One event triggers the other.

So why don’t we talk about the constant dog whistling from the government that enables racism? How can you say Tyrone Mings is wrong in what he says, when it’s comments and behaviour like Patels that cause this a whole lot more than footballers kneeling.