Current Affairs The Conservative Party

[Tubey]

Ah, classic Tubes

He simply is. It'd be like Patel messaging Mings and going "you've took the knee to deliberately cause more racism" - would obviously be wrong.

Patel didn't "stoke the fire" - she had a valid view on what was happening. Taking the knee could be next to gesture politics in the dictionary; it's as blatant as this.

 

[tsubaki]

Doesn't say. Source here: https://news.sky.com/story/football...ng-a-knee-helps-tackle-racism-survey-12329006

View attachment 133168


View attachment 133169


Bare in mind we're talking about what is supposed to be an anti-racism gesture here. You have 4 in 10 people saying they oppose it.

Now, 40% of the country - or even 40% of football fans - aren't racist. They just aren't. You're insane if you think otherwise, I can't even begin to have a discussion with anyone who seriously believes that to be the case.

Yet 40% of football fans oppose the knee. That's a staggering amount against. So, clearly, the gesture isn't doing its' job - it's doing the exact opposite.

You say that as of those people have formed their own conclusions though, rather than being repeatedly told falsehoods like taking the knee is about something other than racism - for example that taking the knee indicates support for “a Marxist organisation”.

 

[Tubey]

You say that as of those people have formed their own conclusions though, rather than being repeatedly told falsehoods like taking the knee is about something other than racism - for example that taking the knee indicates support for “a Marxist organisation”.

You play the hand you're dealt. Doesn't matter how people come to the conclusion they oppose; if the gesture in the zeitgeist has come to have those connotations, then it fails as a gesture. You can moan about the hows and whys all you want, it doesn't change the reality. The truth is the connotation of the gesture is inextricably tied with Black Lives Matter, and the connotation of Black Lives Matter is inextricably tied to extreme left wing politics.

That's why I started this discussion by asking what the end game of the gesture is. I mean look at this.



There are people like this who genuinely thought they'd take the knee and racism would magically disappear, and are oblivious as to why it's now worse.

It simply doesn't work as a gesture. That really is the be all, end all with it as an annoyance to me - if it worked, even remotely, then all power to it. But it clearly doesn't.

 

[Charro]

No, racism is the net result of division. Racism only exists if there's division on those grounds.

What I'm saying is taking the knee exacerbates that division further. It's not about making 'more racists', it's about creating more apathy from the layperson and hardening the position of the extremes. No pun intended, but it really isn't a black and white issue.

No one can tell me what that gesture actually, tangibly achieves. They throw up vague terms like "awareness", but we've been "aware" of the issue for decades. It does nothing to actually solve it; it simply exacerbates it by highlighting difference and making it overtly political. This shouldn't be political - it should be as obvious as saying the grass in your garden is green.

What does booing it achieve?

 

[Tubey]

What does booing it achieve?

Division. For every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. The knee causes divisions, boos in response cause division, everyone gets more divided.

That's why taking the knee fails. If you're fighting something that should be so obviously universally abhorrent as racism and the mechanism you use to highlight it is being booed, then obviously it's because of one of two things - either there's an incredible amount of racists, around 40% of football fans, who rabidly hate the idea of equal rights, or the gesture has too many other connotations that muddy the waters.

I'd like to think most people, looking at the situation objectively, would come to the conclusion that the latter of those two reasons is much more likely than the former.

 

[dead_soft]

Doesn't say. Source here: https://news.sky.com/story/football...ng-a-knee-helps-tackle-racism-survey-12329006

View attachment 133168


View attachment 133169


Bare in mind we're talking about what is supposed to be an anti-racism gesture here. You have 4 in 10 people saying they oppose it.

Now, 40% of the country - or even 40% of football fans - aren't racist. They just aren't. You're insane if you think otherwise, I can't even begin to have a discussion with anyone who seriously believes that to be the case.

Yet 40% of football fans oppose the knee. That's a staggering amount against. So, clearly, the gesture isn't doing its' job - it's doing the exact opposite.

This here is what pretty much every single one of your argument boils down to 'I have no evidence but I can't conceive of it so it's clearly untrue'

 

[Tubey]

This here is what pretty much every single one of your argument boils down to 'I have no evidence but I can't conceive of it so it's clearly untrue'

So 40% of the country/football fans are racist?

Do you have any evidence of such a claim mate?

Nah, thought not, given it's absolutely bonkers.

 

[dead_soft]

So 40% of the country/football fans are racist?

Do you have any evidence of such a claim mate?

Nah, thought not, given it's absolutely bonkers.

I never said that. I did say that it highlighted how you often see the world - a belief that there should just be accepted facts. It's what makes you so entrenched in your views and why you are so desperate to be right here despite everything pointing to you being wrong. It may seem like 'common sense' or 'just true' to you but it may be worth examining your premises first.

 

[Tubey]

I never said that. I did say that it highlighted how you often see the world - a belief that there should just be accepted facts. It's what makes you so entrenched in your views and why you are so desperate to be right here despite everything pointing to you being wrong. It may seem like 'common sense' or 'just true' to you but it may be worth examining your premises first.

Alexa, define irony.

 

[Bishop Thumpety-Thump]

So 40% of the country/football fans are racist?

Do you have any evidence of such a claim mate?

Nah, thought not, given it's absolutely bonkers.

Jesus, answering your own questions just demonstrates how much of what you say is Partridge-esque.

 

[dead_soft]

I never said that. I did say that it highlighted how you often see the world - a belief that there should just be accepted facts. It's what makes you so entrenched in your views and why you are so desperate to be right here despite everything pointing to you being wrong. It may seem like 'common sense' or 'just true' to you but it may be worth examining your premises first.

See you've done another trope of yours. You're really entrenched in your views that those who disagree with you are stuck within their views when your views are so entrenched and often quite outdated.

 

[Tubey]

Jesus, answering your own questions just demonstrates how much of what you say is Partridge-esque.

And you have absolutely nothing to add to any given conversation, so you just attack the man instead. As always.

 

[dead_soft]

And you have absolutely nothing to add to any given conversation, so you just attack the man instead. As always.

You literally just did that...

 

[Tubey]

You literally just did that...

Where?

I'm giving figures and sources for my views. What are you and him doing? The square sum of nothing.

 

[Bishop Thumpety-Thump]

And you have absolutely nothing to add to any given conversation, so you just attack the man instead. As always.

Usually because someone else has already refuted your nonsense. See above for details.