Current Affairs The "another stabbing in London" thread

[abelard]

Then you come to your point about "the Mayor has the option to improve efficiency and operational effectiveness" - he doesn't. The only people who can change police pay and conditions, which is what would be required to "improve efficiency" in the way you mean, are the Government. They have spent much of their time doing this, which is why there has been a sub-inflation pay culture since 2010, why people who signed up for 30 years and a 2/3 pension and who did most of it are now doing 36+ years for a half pension, paying more to do so, and why so many people have left.

And then multiply this across the entire public sector and you're left with anarchic prisons, a collapsing legal aid and criminal justice system, annual NHS crises, overcrowded and underfunded primary schools, ponzi scheme universities, weekly rail breakdowns, the gutting of public transit, shuttered libraries, parks, arts and community institutions, soaring rates of food bank dependency, a massive personal credit bubble, vacant high streets, the absolutely scandalous cruelty and ineptitude of Universal Credit - and all for the reward of the most stagnant and unequal economies in Europe bar Greece, which had something even worse than the Great Depression imposed on it.

It's difficult to think of anything else the government hasn't already done to make petty crime and violence more prevalent. And it's little short of miraculous that the 2011 riots aren't an annual occurance by now.

 

[peteblue]

Well, if you wanted to encapsulate the way in which Tory management is utterly divorced from reality then you managed to do so.

For a start, the Mayor of London has, in reality, no choice as to what the Policing budget is spent on - as I said above, Parliament has to be protected, as does Heathrow, as does the Royal Family, as do all the various events, demonstrations and festivals that London attracts, as does the West End, as does the invididual boroughs and citizens. He has to ensure that murders, rapes, and serious crime is investigated properly. He has to ensure that the Met can cope if the worst happens and a disaster strikes London whilst also continuing to protect it. All of that requires police officers and staff, which is why the majority of the budget goes on paying them and why your mates cutting the budget - which of course means cutting staff - has had the effect that we have all seen (and those of us down here have experienced).

Then you come to your point about "the Mayor has the option to improve efficiency and operational effectiveness" - he doesn't. The only people who can change police pay and conditions, which is what would be required to "improve efficiency" in the way you mean, are the Government. They have spent much of their time doing this, which is why there has been a sub-inflation pay culture since 2010, why people who signed up for 30 years and a 2/3 pension and who did most of it are now doing 36+ years for a half pension, paying more to do so, and why so many people have left.

As for "raise money via numerous ways", the only power the Mayor has in this regard is to raise council tax (which he has) and to sell of assets (which he and Boris have both done). The latter has resulted in dozens of police stations and front counters closing, and has even seen almost all of Hendon sold off - which has had the probably intended effect of passing much of the cost of training from the Government onto the individual police officer (see COYBL25's point above).

The one bit of your statement that is accidentally true is that there really is nothing we can do - the government you voted for refuses to do it.

Nice PR piece for the Mayor. So he’s in charge, but not really in charge and there’s nothing he can do. Then he should publicly hand in his resignation and insist that all London policing is immediately taken over by the Home Office. I talk about efficiency and operational effectiveness which you immediately translate only into pay and conditions and pension. No wonder the Met is screwed....

 

[peteblue]

The police service, the fire brigade, the prison service etc have all been turned into a wing of which political party is in power and those at the top have to be part of it to advance.

The Armed Forces are probably the last of the lot, who still have autonomous top brass.

Merseyside Police are the rarity out at the moment, as the Chief Constable - Andy Cook, actually came through the ranks properly, so has years of practical experience on his CV, as well as all the relevant management qualifications.

The Chief Con before that - John Murphy was the same.

Both excellent, extremely competent and well respected at all levels.

Andy Cook will more than likely be replaced with a 30 something " clone " Chief Constable out of the Oxbridge box.

That fast track for graduates was the worst thing the police ever did....

 

[COYBL25]

That fast track for graduates was the worst thing the police ever did....

Not just the Police, the prison service and fire brigade too.

You can`t rise past Inspector now, unless you have a degree.

The net result seems to be lots of very experienced Inspectors, who could do the roles above them standing on their head, but can`t / don`t want to do a degree

The Customs are even more of a political football. They must`ve been renamed / re -branded at least three times in the past decade.

Each time they`ve been renamed it has meant a new uniform for every officer, then there`s all the logo changes on vehicles, buildings, stationary etc, computer upgrades / changes etc.

The sums of money involved must be mind boggling, yet no one is ever held to account.

Every time it happens, it`s like " the Kings new clothes " !!!!!!!!!!

 

[peteblue]

Oh and here’s a little stat for you...

Back in the early 60’s there were approximately 800 people for every police officer, today there are about 460 people for every officer......And they still used to police demonstrations and parliament and and and.....oh and they used to arrest scrotes on motorcycles.......

 

[peteblue]

Not just the Police, the prison service and fire brigade too.

You can`t rise past Inspector now, unless you have a degree.

The net result seems to be lots of very experienced Inspectors, who could do the roles above them standing on their head, but can`t / don`t want to do a degree

The Customs are even more of a political football. They must`ve been renamed / re -branded at least three times in the past decade.

Each time they`ve been renamed it has meant a new uniform for every officer, then there`s all the logo changes on vehicles, buildings, stationary etc, computer upgrades / changes etc.

The sums of money involved must be mind boggling, yet no one is ever held to account.

Every time it happens, it`s like " the Kings new clothes " !!!!!!!!!!

The public sector have become an ever growing monster, always providing less and less service for more and more money. It won’t be long until a ‘graduate refuse collector’ advert appears.........

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Oh and here’s a little stat for you...

Back in the early 60’s there were approximately 800 people for every police officer, today there are about 460 people for every officer......And they still used to police demonstrations and parliament and and and.....oh and they used to arrest scrotes on motorcycles.......

There weren't any foreigners back then though Pete and @arminisgod could go for his mleko without worrying about encountering a Pole.

 

[tsubaki]

Nice PR piece for the Mayor. So he’s in charge, but not really in charge and there’s nothing he can do. Then he should publicly hand in his resignation and insist that all London policing is immediately taken over by the Home Office. I talk about efficiency and operational effectiveness which you immediately translate only into pay and conditions and pension. No wonder the Met is screwed....

Pete - it would be better if you understood what terms like efficiency and operational effectiveness mean before you used them.

 

[tsubaki]

Not just the Police, the prison service and fire brigade too.

You can`t rise past Inspector now, unless you have a degree.

The net result seems to be lots of very experienced Inspectors, who could do the roles above them standing on their head, but can`t / don`t want to do a degree

The Customs are even more of a political football. They must`ve been renamed / re -branded at least three times in the past decade.

Each time they`ve been renamed it has meant a new uniform for every officer, then there`s all the logo changes on vehicles, buildings, stationary etc, computer upgrades / changes etc.

The sums of money involved must be mind boggling, yet no one is ever held to account.

Every time it happens, it`s like " the Kings new clothes " !!!!!!!!!!

I think you have misunderstood something down the line here - you can still get promoted past Inspector if you don't have a degree. They have brought in direct entry for Superintendents and Inspectors, but that hasn't blocked off the old promotion system.

 

[COYBL25]

I think you have misunderstood something down the line here - you can still get promoted past Inspector if you don't have a degree. They have brought in direct entry for Superintendents and Inspectors, but that hasn't blocked off the old promotion system.

Officially you can, but no one without a degree ever gets promoted past Inspector, it`s been that way for years. ( certainly in Merseyside )

 

[peteblue]

Pete - it would be better if you understood what terms like efficiency and operational effectiveness mean before you used them.

Tsubaki, I have spent my professional life putting efficiency and operational effectiveness into very large organisations....

 

[tsubaki]

Tsubaki, I have spent my professional life putting efficiency and operational effectiveness into very large organisations....

Given the decline of (edit) many of the great firms, business and assorted other organizations of the UK these past forty years, I believe you.

 

[peteblue]

Given the decline of (edit) many of the great firms, business and assorted other organizations of the UK these past forty years, I believe you.

Nice. If all you wish to do is trade insults I am more than happy to oblige...

Now back to the subject, watch the video and give me your opinion on police effectiveness and use of resources in London......

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-arrest-6ft-suspect-arrives-KNIFE-nearby.html

 

[tsubaki]

Nice. If all you wish to do is trade insults I am more than happy to oblige...

Now back to the subject, watch the video and give me your opinion on police effectiveness and use of resources in London......

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-arrest-6ft-suspect-arrives-KNIFE-nearby.html

Do you actually read the things you select as evidence?

I say that because, for a start, sending people out on single patrol is exactly the sort of "efficiency" or "operational effectiveness" measures that your lot so cherish - indeed it was the Commissioner Boris appointed that came up with that wheeze, and with the enthusiastic backing of the Tories (as shown in this wonderful piece of online history - "200 Achievements of Boris Johnson as Mayor of London"):

7. Facilitated the departure of Sir Ian Blair. The new Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson is doing a much better job – bringing in common sense changes such as the police going on the beat individually rather than in pairs. The level of single patrol has risen to 50%. There are now an average of just under 3000 (2996) officers engaged in single patrol every day across London.
The Met says: "Members of the public walk around London on their own, unprotected. When they see officers patrolling together they draw their own assumptions about how safe that area is. Fear of crime has an effect on the quality of life on local people and we need to make sure that that fear is not being unnecessarily raised."

As an extra gift, please check out number 17 on that list.

Secondly, I would point out that sub-five foot woman did have the balls to try and detain a bloke a foot taller than herself, by herself, in the middle of Brixton. When that didn't work she called for help, which arrived (though not from the bloke who decided to film it all) and the bloke was safely detained. A knife was recovered.

It is somewhat mad that you appear to be critizing someone braver than yourself for doing something that I think everyone here would be glad she did despite the fact that the likes of you have denied her the support with which to do it.

 

[PhilM]

I think you have misunderstood something down the line here - you can still get promoted past Inspector if you don't have a degree. They have brought in direct entry for Superintendents and Inspectors, but that hasn't blocked off the old promotion system.

Unfortunately, @COYBL25 is correct here - at least in the mainstay. Unless you hold a relevant qualification your options for promotion are incredibly limited.

In fact, very shortly you'll be unable to join the police without a degree-level qualification, and the BTP are already almost at this point with their training format.

This may ensure you have a grounding of the laws, modern principles of policing and managements strategies etc. but it in no way makes you a good cop!

It simply ensures that people with very little experience of policing (especially how to police the streets) implement grandiose plans with no real credibility.