Current Affairs The "another stabbing in London" thread
- Thread starter GrandOldTeam
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peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
Apart from saying ‘more’, exactly how many Police men and women do you think they need, what processes need to change, what additional technology do they require, what standard and quality of management is required, what laws need to be enacted to support them, what ‘other work’ should they not do, what level of manpower is currently ‘off sick’ or having taken early retirement. How does the Met compare with other forces in these respects and is it a leader or a follower. What is the effect of the London politicians and populace ‘accepting’ the stabbings and scooter crime upon crime growth figures. What.......now I could ask quite a few questions, but I would be interested in what you believe should actually be understood and then done to address the issue.......
tsubaki
Player Valuation: £90m
Well:
i) the murder and crime rate in London was lower when there were 3,000 more cops in the Met, and 8,000 more civil staff - so that is a starting point. If you add the increased population (probably an extra million since 2011) and the fact that we have a clear terror threat now it should probably be around 5,000 officers and 10,000 extra staff.
ii) they don't need any additional technology
iii) the only change to the quality of management has been to have direct entry at Inspector and Superintendent rank (not that that is to blame for this - there arent enough of them nor have many of them finished training)
iv) the amount of manpower off sick is an indication of how stressful a job is much more than how tolerant it is of laziness - if the sickness rate goes up as there are fewer people in an organization, that is a good indication that it is overstretched
v) do you even know how police pensions work? their accrual rates ramp up the closer someone is to retirement so the incentive is to stay as long as possible, not retire early
vi) the Met compares with no other force - its five times bigger than any other one and has a city of eight million plus to look after, plus all of the Government and Royal Family, and the biggest airport
vii) noone in London accepts the stabbings or scooter crime; the problem is that because the Mayor doesn't control the Mets financing he - or we - can't do anything about dealing with them
Recruitment is going go get much worse for the Police in London and across the country, as from October ( I believe ) all new recruits must have a degree, the prison service and British Transport Police are the same too.
This has been fought at every level, but the government have refused point blank to back down.
It`s going to rule out vast swathes of suitable candidates in one go and also make retention very difficult too.
tsubaki
Player Valuation: £90m
The mad thing is that the proposal to only recruit people with degrees is one of the least insane things that the Government has proposed for the emergency services; compared to some of the stuff that the College of Policing is generating now or LFEPA came out with during Coleman's time this is relatively mild.
Maybe you could volunteer your services Pete? Like doing a national service. Round up some of your retired mates and help guard the tourists on Oxford Street. On second thoughts, a bunch of Brexiters offering to help foreigners might scare them even more.
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
You mean travel expensively to a place where you then face congestion charges and nowhere to park, then pay rip off prices for food and drink, to help people who just rush around in their own little worlds and who do nothing to put right a problem on their own doorstep, no thanks. To address an issue you first have to openly admit that one exists. You have yet to admit that there is even an issue.....
I wouldn't say there isn't an issue, but I'll say again that for the vast majority of Londoners it isn't one as they seldom join the tourists on Oxford Street or are part of the gangs that like to hurt one another. My other half worked in intensive care at St Mary's and King's, both of which are specialist trauma centres, so please don't conflate not falling in with Trump's 'like a war zone' characterisation of the city with an ignorance that bad stuff does go on.
neil999
Player Valuation: £80m
But on the plus side i can have a nice debate with a policeman about fashion/social sciences/the media as i'm getting arrested...
I`m sure the inmates in Wormwood scrubs are busy reading up on philosophy and political science.
After all they wouldn`t want to appear ignorant and ill educated, when then first batch of degree laden prison officers arrive in the Autumn.
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
The government provides most of the money, but it is the Mayor and the Met that decide how it is spent. If the government reduces financing then the Mayor has the option to improve efficiency and operational effectiveness or raise money via numerous ways. It is a cop out to raise your hands and say there’s nothing we can do.
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
Dear god, we’re doomed.....
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
Well it beats ‘you’re nicked’.......
The police service, the fire brigade, the prison service etc have all been turned into a wing of which political party is in power and those at the top have to be part of it to advance.
The Armed Forces are probably the last of the lot, who still have autonomous top brass.
Merseyside Police are the rarity out at the moment, as the Chief Constable - Andy Cook, actually came through the ranks properly, so has years of practical experience on his CV, as well as all the relevant management qualifications.
The Chief Con before that - John Murphy was the same.
Both excellent, extremely competent and well respected at all levels.
Andy Cook will more than likely be replaced with a 30 something " clone " Chief Constable out of the Oxbridge box.
tsubaki
Player Valuation: £90m
Well, if you wanted to encapsulate the way in which Tory management is utterly divorced from reality then you managed to do so.
For a start, the Mayor of London has, in reality, no choice as to what the Policing budget is spent on - as I said above, Parliament has to be protected, as does Heathrow, as does the Royal Family, as do all the various events, demonstrations and festivals that London attracts, as does the West End, as does the invididual boroughs and citizens. He has to ensure that murders, rapes, and serious crime is investigated properly. He has to ensure that the Met can cope if the worst happens and a disaster strikes London whilst also continuing to protect it. All of that requires police officers and staff, which is why the majority of the budget goes on paying them and why your mates cutting the budget - which of course means cutting staff - has had the effect that we have all seen (and those of us down here have experienced).
Then you come to your point about "the Mayor has the option to improve efficiency and operational effectiveness" - he doesn't. The only people who can change police pay and conditions, which is what would be required to "improve efficiency" in the way you mean, are the Government. They have spent much of their time doing this, which is why there has been a sub-inflation pay culture since 2010, why people who signed up for 30 years and a 2/3 pension and who did most of it are now doing 36+ years for a half pension, paying more to do so, and why so many people have left.
As for "raise money via numerous ways", the only power the Mayor has in this regard is to raise council tax (which he has) and to sell of assets (which he and Boris have both done). The latter has resulted in dozens of police stations and front counters closing, and has even seen almost all of Hendon sold off - which has had the probably intended effect of passing much of the cost of training from the Government onto the individual police officer (see COYBL25's point above).
The one bit of your statement that is accidentally true is that there really is nothing we can do - the government you voted for refuses to do it.
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