Current Affairs The "another stabbing in London" thread

[orchard]

Anyone here reckon that the new Offensive Weapons Bill is the answer?

I don't fwtw like, the targeted sector have been breaking the law with impunity anyway, just catch the culprits and stop just handing out crime reference #'s and leaving criminal groups to grow and develop their networks and skills.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Tougher sentences

Agree.

Over the last week alone, police in London have seized six guns, 135 knives and other weapons including CS spray.

"Carrying a knife can mean four years in prison, even if you don't use it."

In reality, the “two strikes” system (6 months if caught carrying a knife for a second time) is indicative of the problem. Young offenders get a detention/training order...

New legislation the other month still doesn't go far enough IMO

The new guidelines also make clear that the courts must impose a mandatory six month minimum prison term on those caught carrying a knife for a second time or those who threaten with a weapon.

The only exception is if it would be “unjust” to do so. In deciding this the guidelines say that the courts should assess whether there is any “strong personal mitigation” or whether “there is a realistic prospect of rehabilitation” or if “custody will result in significant impact on others.”

 

[peteblue]

Yes that was my point, education, but for both parents and kids. It seems to be undereducated groups/minority's where most of it happens, that can't be right and it needs addressing.
By the way, and I'll contradict myself, I do believe the death sentence would reduce murder, but I don't think it should be brought back, mostly because I think its barbaric.

Fixed......

 

[orchard]

Agree.

Over the last week alone, police in London have seized six guns, 135 knives and other weapons including CS spray.

"Carrying a knife can mean four years in prison, even if you don't use it."

In reality, the “two strikes” system (6 months if caught carrying a knife for a second time) is indicative of the problem. Young offenders get a detention/training order...

New legislation the other month still doesn't go far enough IMO

In what way? The police probably only catch 4pc of perp's, and poor reactive legislation isn't going to help that, only penalise the innocent.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

In what way? The police probably only catch 4pc of perp's, and poor reactive legislation isn't going to help that, only penalise the innocent.

If the police search someone in town on a Friday night and find a 8 inch blade concealed - what in your view should be the penalty?

 

[orly]

If the police search someone in town on a Friday night and find a 8 inch blade concealed - what in your view should be the penalty?

Would it be VAR assisted?

 

[Connor]

If the police search someone in town on a Friday night and find a 8 inch blade concealed - what in your view should be the penalty?

Prison

 

[orchard]

If the police search someone in town on a Friday night and find a 8 inch blade concealed - what in your view should be the penalty?

It depends.
As far as I am aware none of the legislation differentiates between 'in town' or out of town, nor different days. If it has a bearing, why not?

Let me put it another way, do you think that someone returning to their city centre flat with an 8 inch blade in their rucksack should be treated as guilty until proven innocent?

 

[GrandOldTeam]

It depends.
As far as I am aware none of the legislation differentiates between 'in town' or out of town, nor different days. If it has a bearing, why not?

Let me put it another way, do you think that someone returning to their city centre flat with an 8 inch blade in their rucksack should be treated as guilty until proven innocent?

It was a given scenario which is most likely given search criteria.

In the case given, someone collared by police with a concealed 8 inch knife - what should be their penalty?

 

[orchard]

It was a given scenario which is most likely given search criteria.

In the case given, someone collared by police with a concealed 8 inch knife - what should be their penalty?

Your description is too vague, eg the new proposed bill, I believe, defines any bladed product capable of cutting skin as an offensive weapon, not just your emotive 9inch blade.
I don't think that someone returning to their city centre flat with a bill hook after volunteering at a community woodland project should receive any sentence, nor someone carrying a chainsaw blade to sharpen at home.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Your description is too vague, eg the new proposed bill, I believe, defines any bladed product capable of cutting skin as an offensive weapon, not just your emotive 9inch blade.
I don't think that someone returning to their city centre flat with a bill hook after volunteering at a community woodland project should receive any sentence, nor someone carrying a chainsaw blade to sharpen at home.

No need to get bogged down in semantics, I'm not asking for a legislative framework. It's a simple question on a football forum, no tricks and you're not a politician (I dont think...) so you can answer it.

If the police search someone in town on a Friday night and find a 8 inch blade concealed - what in your view should be the penalty?

Concealed on their body under clothes (no bag/no reasoning given as to why they have hidden a blade on them)

The difficulty in answering the question is in my view, part of the problem.

People can carry knives without concern.

 

[Naisy'sCharitableLeanings]

lol at 'London's bloodbath'. Jesus wept.

8 million population, 50 odd people stabbed to death in half year.

Thats 50 people too many but the media scaremongering and hyperbole is beyond ridiculous and people from outside of London seem more than willing to buy into the idea London is some giant ghetto where everyone is afraid to leave their houses.

Certain ‘news’ outlets would have you believe you can’t leave your London home without being stabbed and/or suffering an acid attack. For the most part, these aren’t random happenings - there are clear links to gang activity or domestics getting out of control - but of course, ‘scary’ sells.

 

[orchard]

No need to get bogged down in semantics, I'm not asking for a legislative framework. It's a simple question on a football forum, no tricks and you're not a politician (I dont think...) so you can answer it.

If the police search someone in town on a Friday night and find a 8 inch blade concealed - what in your view should be the penalty?

Concealed on their body under clothes (no bag/no reasoning given as to why they have hidden a blade on them)

The difficulty in answering the question is in my view, part of the problem.

People can carry knives without concern.

Ha, I gave you the reasons why I couldn't answer that, and, from a jurisprudent perspective, without any further corroborative evidence, I don't think we should as it's unjust to treat someone as guilty and put the onus on them to prove their innocence.
However, as I'm sure you're aware, it's already illegal to carry certain blades in public unless one can provide concrete justification, and they could be charged under that legislation if appropriate.

What I will say, with no reservations whatsoever, is that anyone guilty of an act of violence using a blade should receive a very harsh sentence, with no baseball analogies involved at all.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Ha, I gave you the reasons why I couldn't answer that, and, from a jurisprudent perspective, without any further corroborative evidence, I don't think we should as it's unjust to treat someone as guilty and put the onus on them to prove their innocence.
However, as I'm sure you're aware, it's already illegal to carry certain blades in public unless one can provide concrete justification, and they could be charged under that legislation if appropriate.

What I will say, with no reservations whatsoever, is that anyone guilty of an act of violence using a blade should receive a very harsh sentence, with no baseball analogies involved at all.

They get a caution at most and told if they're caught a second time, they'll get 6 months prison.

 

[orchard]

They get a caution at most and told if they're caught a second time, they'll get 6 months prison.

Possibly because of shoddy legislation passed by a herd of urban populists as it's the same charge a farmer could receive for leaving a 3inch knife in his boot by accident after doing a quick job and going shopping on his way home.

How long a sentence would someone get for using a knife to commit a violent act, and what are the police resolution percentages?